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You're listening to Strictly Business
Podcast with Lindsay Williams.

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The JSC is closed at stores for another
day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock

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shadow.

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And as always on a Thursday, I speak to
Viv Govender from Randsuisse in

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Johannesburg and David Shapiro from
Sassvin Securities,

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also in the City of Gold.

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Now I've got a, I'll start with you
actually, Viv, I've got a quiz for you.

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And who said this comment?

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Now, it's either the president.

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of the united states the 47th president of
the united states or lindsey williams

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that's me

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or david shapiro south africa's favorite
south africa's favorite stockbroker now

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this is it

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who who said this uh

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where are we now i'm just trying to find
the quote now um oh goodness me

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what am i doing here now i've lost it here
at 10 34 this morning so i'll edit all

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this out um because

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Gosh, gentlemen, found it nearly because
it's such a long, it's such a long.

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Let me start this again.

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Sorry, I'll do the intro again because
I've lost the quote from, you know, at 10.

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It was at 10.34 this morning.

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Donald Trump was in the Oval Office.

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Because millions of people,

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Donald Trump does what he always does.

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The outcome slips.

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Oh, God.

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Okay, I've got it.

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Finally.

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Excuse me.

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As everyone knows, that's it.

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I'll do it all again.

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Okay, three, two, one.

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The JC has closed its doors for another
day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock shadow

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with Viv Govender from Ranswiss and David

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Shapiro from Sasfin Securities.

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Now, Viv, I'll start with you because I've
got a quiz for you.

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Who said this?

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The 47th President of the United States,
that's the first answer, Lindsay Williams,

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as you know me,

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talking, or David Shapiro from Sasfin
Securities.

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The quote is as follows.

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As everyone knows, I am an extraordinarily
brilliant person.

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That's it.

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As everyone knows, I am an extraordinarily
brilliant person.

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Obviously, Viv, it's a rhetorical
question.

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It was truly David.

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Of course.

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I feel a little bit slighted there, by the
way, Viv.

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But this is the man in charge of the
nuclear buttons, Viv.

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I don't want to go on about this because I
tend to get a bit obsessed by this sort of

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thing.

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But he sent this out at 10.34.

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And it's the most absurd, childish,
ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my

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life.

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I am this brilliant person.

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What's going on?

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Aren't you scared, Viv?

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Look, I mean, there is the idea that he's
playing 7D chess or something maybe

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because he acts crazy and everyone is
scared of him.

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That's one possibility.

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But I would have to say with regards to
Trump at the moment, this is something

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that we've discussed in the office.

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If there's a statement coming out and one
comes from the Iranians and one comes from

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President Trump,

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I will trust the Iranians 10 times out of
10 versus what Trump says.

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Trump's declarations on

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Truth Central or whatever it's called
there literally have nothing predictive

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involved with them.

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If he says he will not do a deal, if he
says he will not extend a ceasefire, if he

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says, you know,

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we are going to blow bridges and power
plants up tonight,

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they literally have nothing to do with how
the world is going to be changed in the

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future.

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So you can almost ignore them.

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You know, you can't determine anything
about the actions of the U.S., about the

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current state of negotiations.

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It's just meaningless.

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On the other hand, when the Iranians do
talk, they tend to have been, you know,

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speaking the truth, you know, weirdly
enough.

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And we live in a weird world right now
where literally the Iranian government is

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more trustworthy in terms of what they say
to the President of the United

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States.

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Can you imagine that?

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Yes, I heard that comment as well.

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Isn't it a strange world where you have to
believe the Ayatollah rather than the

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President?

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David, over to you on this one because I
can see your shoulders sagging here.

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You know, I just think he's in deep
trouble.

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I think Trump is just lashing out all over
the place.

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Everything's falling around him.

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Even Tucker Carlson has now withdrawn his
support,

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said he has remorse about backing him in
2024.

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Yes, I know Tucker Carlson is not the kind
of person that you want to associate with,

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but I mean,

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that's what's happening to the right of
his party.

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To the left, it's even worse.

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I think that he's just imploding.

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He doesn't know what to do.

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He's got no answers.

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And, you know, even around his small, the
small circle of people around him, I

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think,

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are in a similar kind of position.

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Nobody's got a solution.

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And, you know, the Iranians are just
looking at him.

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Do you remember that cut from, what's the
name, from Monty Python,

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the Holy Grail?

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When King Arthur's riding through and he
comes across a castle and it's the French,

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you know,

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and they start throwing down insults at
him and throwing down all kinds of things,

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cows and chickens and everything.

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Basically, that reminds me of Trump at the
moment.

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He's just facing this castle where people
are just insulting him and belittling him

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and,

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you know, just confusing him.

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I'm I'm I'm genuinely worried and I'm not
sure he's going to last I'm not sure he's

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going to

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get through the next few months

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but this is what I want to this is this is
the phrase I wanted from one of you two or

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from anyone that I've spoken to

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I'm genuinely worried and that's what you
said because I am genuinely worried

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because I don't know where what will
happen because with

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him in charge it's disastrous and
potentially dangerous without him in

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charge you

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it's disastrous and potentially dangerous.

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If you get someone like Hegseth, not
Hegseth, J.D.

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Vance getting in, and he's got Miller in
charge as well with him, et cetera,

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and it goes on and on.

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And Viv's is sitting there looking at his
spreadsheets and analyses of AI, and

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that's brilliant.

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And, David, you're the same.

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But on the other hand, we've got to think
about our children.

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grandchildren and everything else because
something is going on, Viv.

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Look, I don't think J.D.

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Vance is the same kind of chaotic force
that Trump is.

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I don't think Vance would do these kind of
things.

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He did serve in the military, Vance.

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I don't think he's a combat soldier, but
he was a military person.

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And I don't think anyone else, with the
exception maybe of Pete Hegsett, might be

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or Stephen Muller might be this crazy,

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but they're not in the line of succession
here.

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So it would be Vance if Trump was removed.

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But one thing I want to point out, an
interesting fact, is that It's coming to

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very unpopular Trump and it's actually
hurting him in ways that are

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already affecting him.

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For instance, there was an election in
Virginia, you know, just I think

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yesterday, where he lost.

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And what that does is effectively means
that Virginia becomes, I think,

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like almost an even split between
Republicans and Democrats, becomes like 11

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or 10 to 1, it's called

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Democrats versus Republicans for the next
election.

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And this kind of move basically right now
where...

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States are going off and redistricting
basically based on responses to what Trump

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did in Texas, right?

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So Trump basically pushed Texas to
redistrict and become much more

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Republican.

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It's prompted the Democrats to go against
him.

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And it just so happens that while they're
doing all these elections and all this

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maneuvering, they are actually doing it
while Trump is, I think,

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underwater two to one in terms of
favorability.

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So it's actually pushing through.

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Did you see his response?

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It's horrific, of course.

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Did you see the response to this?

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All of a sudden, right at the last minute,
the Democrats come and unload ballots,

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boxes of ballots.

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The same kind of response.

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This is exactly what he said on Truth
Social, and I'll read it to you now.

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He said, a rigged election took place last
night in the great Commonwealth of

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Virginia.

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All day long, Republicans were winning.

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The spirit was unbelievable until the very
end when, of course, there was a

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massive...

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Mail-in ballot drop.

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Where have I heard that before?

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And the Democrats eked out another crooked
victory.

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What he's doing there, gentlemen, is
setting the scene for the November

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elections.

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And it's very, very scary.

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That's why I'm scared.

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I don't have grandchildren yet, but my
children I'm scared for.

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I'm scared for myself, for goodness sake.

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Something's going to go on here.

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He'll be in his third term, I would
imagine.

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That's what he's going for.

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David, carry on with that.

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Sorry.

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Yeah, no, I'm saying these are the
reactions of a man who is cornered.

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who just doesn't know what to do.

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You know, he's run out of that kind of
charm.

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When I say charm, people were, okay, he's
funny, you know, he's clever,

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he's doing things that no other president
would do.

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But all of a sudden he said, okay, you
know.

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It's not funny.

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This is enough already.

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This is not funny anymore.

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And I don't think he's funny anymore.

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The kind of remarks that he makes, his
actions, his body language, somewhere

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along the line,

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you want him to grow up and to become
presidential.

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And.

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he's just going worse.

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That's why I say I'm really worried about
what comes next.

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And America is losing it.

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It's losing.

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It's got, you know, it's French people are
just beginning to despise them.

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You know, he's got no one that he can turn
to.

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The whole world is against him.

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His whole country is against him.

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And if you think I'm exaggerating, I don't
think so.

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I think this is genuinely the case.

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It genuinely is.

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And Viv, I was speaking to a friend of
mine a couple of nights ago.

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I haven't spoken to her for years.

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She's 62 years old, incredibly successful
in the interior design business in New

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York.

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She's lived for 30 years in the same flat
in Midtown in Manhattan.

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David, you'll know the Midtown area.

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It's not exactly poor.

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She's incredibly successful, Viv.

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And.

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I said to her, well, what are you going to
do with the rest of your life?

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She said, well, I'm going to retire quite
soon.

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I said, oh, really?

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Were you going to stay in Manhattan or go
to Texas, you know, your home stage?

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She said, no, I couldn't breathe the same
air as Trump anymore or the same air as

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I can't breathe the same air as Texans as
well that vote for this man.

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She's moving to southwest London.

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She's got a house in Putney, southwest
London.

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And she's going to move there in the next
year.

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And I said, but won't you miss it?

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You're a quintessential American success
story.

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She said, no, I don't like America
anymore.

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It is not the country that I grew up in.

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And Viv, what would you say about that?

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I mean, David will back me up on this
because he's got stories of the same kind.

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Viv, America is a laughingstock now.

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I want to get back to the Virginia
situation, just to highlight a point here,

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right?

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What happened in Virginia is roughly 51%
of people voted to make sure the other 49%

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of people were disenfranchised
effectively.

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So Virginia is split pretty evenly, as
most U.S.

242
00:12:06.164 --> 00:12:06.864
states are.

243
00:12:06.864 --> 00:12:08.185
It's slightly one way, it's slightly the
other way.

244
00:12:08.445 --> 00:12:12.766
But it's not 11 to 1, or 10 to 1, rather,
for Democrats over Republicans.

245
00:12:13.206 --> 00:12:13.906
You know what I mean?

246
00:12:14.186 --> 00:12:19.748
Now, what's happened is because of the
polarized nature of this current election,

247
00:12:19.748 --> 00:12:21.748
or the current situation, that the

248
00:12:21.748 --> 00:12:27.334
The Democrats won an election which allows
them to basically kind of change how you

249
00:12:27.334 --> 00:12:29.334
count votes in different

250
00:12:29.334 --> 00:12:31.334
districts.

251
00:12:31.334 --> 00:12:31.357
So the Republicans are all in one
district, so they can't actually affect

252
00:12:31.357 --> 00:12:31.677
it.

253
00:12:31.677 --> 00:12:33.519
And Democrats have a huge majority in all
the other districts.

254
00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:38.483
So it becomes like when they go to
Congress, they're going to get a massive

255
00:12:38.483 --> 00:12:40.483
discrepancy.

256
00:12:40.483 --> 00:12:44.268
What's going to happen here is that you're
going to have similar back and forth

257
00:12:44.268 --> 00:12:46.268
events happening across the whole of the
U.S.

258
00:12:46.268 --> 00:12:47.831
And what this does is it fundamentally
weakens the way the U.S.

259
00:12:47.891 --> 00:12:48.992
political system works.

260
00:12:49.456 --> 00:12:53.458
Which is, I mean, it's boring to start to
talk about it, but this is important.

261
00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:55.159
The way the political system of the U.S.

262
00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:59.402
works is that, you know, you have a pretty
even match between the Republicans and

263
00:12:59.402 --> 00:12:59.582
Democrats.

264
00:12:59.582 --> 00:13:01.923
I mean, you may say, OK, look at the last
few elections.

265
00:13:02.423 --> 00:13:03.544
You're winning by one or two percent.

266
00:13:03.584 --> 00:13:04.725
You're not winning by 50 percent.

267
00:13:04.726 --> 00:13:05.426
You know what I mean?

268
00:13:05.745 --> 00:13:12.069
But the way they are restricting these
places is if you win by one or two

269
00:13:12.069 --> 00:13:14.069
percent, you're getting 50 percent or in
this case,

270
00:13:14.069 --> 00:13:17.051
90 percent more representation in the
electorate or in the politics.

271
00:13:17.692 --> 00:13:18.392
It's good.

272
00:13:18.392 --> 00:13:20.953
make a much less stable political system
in the US.

273
00:13:21.233 --> 00:13:25.534
And the kind of thing that your friend
talked about, about the hatred towards the

274
00:13:25.534 --> 00:13:25.755
other,

275
00:13:26.114 --> 00:13:31.616
is going to make the US a less stable
country going forward, which is a terrible

276
00:13:31.616 --> 00:13:33.616
thing to happen.

277
00:13:33.616 --> 00:13:36.417
And like I said, it's this kind of
situation we have right now.

278
00:13:37.998 --> 00:13:40.938
It's making the world a less safe place,
as you mentioned.

279
00:13:41.378 --> 00:13:43.439
But it's not just a Trump thing.

280
00:13:43.699 --> 00:13:46.280
It's the impact of what Trump is doing
right now and the effect it's having.

281
00:13:46.676 --> 00:13:51.820
The longer term effects are going to be
quite damaging to the overall stability of

282
00:13:51.820 --> 00:13:53.820
the US because, you know,

283
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:58.164
the Republicans basically are obviously on
one side with Trump, the Democrats like

284
00:13:58.164 --> 00:14:00.164
hate Trump and on the other side,

285
00:14:00.164 --> 00:14:03.648
and they are doing things that, you know,
any logical person that's patriotic to the

286
00:14:03.648 --> 00:14:05.648
US would say this is a bad thing to do.

287
00:14:05.648 --> 00:14:09.752
If you're a patriotic Virginian, you
wouldn't say it's a great thing that we

288
00:14:09.752 --> 00:14:11.752
effectively disenfranchised 49% of the
electorate.

289
00:14:11.752 --> 00:14:13.752
You know what I mean?

290
00:14:13.752 --> 00:14:14.675
But because you say we are bringing, we're
kind of forcing Yeah.

291
00:14:14.676 --> 00:14:15.376
To see me as a people.

292
00:14:15.676 --> 00:14:17.983
We are doing this to get against Trump.

293
00:14:18.325 --> 00:14:23.240
And they have effectively disenfranchised
49% of the electorate, which is a bad

294
00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.240
thing, objectively.

295
00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:25.758
David, would you agree?

296
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:30.923
Well, it was a move to counteract what
they were going to do in Texas.

297
00:14:31.063 --> 00:14:33.345
This is what the Republicans wanted to do
in Texas.

298
00:14:33.385 --> 00:14:36.948
So, you know, he sparked this off.

299
00:14:37.408 --> 00:14:38.629
But this is gerrymandering.

300
00:14:40.290 --> 00:14:40.990
It's common.

301
00:14:42.352 --> 00:14:43.052
This has happened.

302
00:14:43.052 --> 00:14:49.618
I mean, if you know history in South
Africa, the same thing happened here with

303
00:14:49.618 --> 00:14:51.618
the Nationalist Party.

304
00:14:51.618 --> 00:14:51.960
I mean, you know.

305
00:14:51.961 --> 00:14:52.761
You know?

306
00:14:53.321 --> 00:14:59.463
shoving everybody into one big area in
Johannesburg, giving them one vote, and

307
00:14:59.463 --> 00:15:01.463
then the counter-district,

308
00:15:01.463 --> 00:15:04.224
all the small districts got many, many
seats in parliament.

309
00:15:04.284 --> 00:15:06.185
But it's nothing new in politics.

310
00:15:06.265 --> 00:15:08.566
But what you say is correct.

311
00:15:08.606 --> 00:15:09.826
I mean, there's nothing in the middle.

312
00:15:10.046 --> 00:15:11.987
There's no one in the middle to be fair.

313
00:15:12.347 --> 00:15:14.027
You know, that's the problem.

314
00:15:15.248 --> 00:15:19.709
When I say the Supreme Court, where's the
balancing factor?

315
00:15:20.609 --> 00:15:22.470
And that's why we had a constitution.

316
00:15:22.510 --> 00:15:27.032
That's why they have the constitution, was
to ensure that things like this don't

317
00:15:27.032 --> 00:15:27.172
happen.

318
00:15:27.172 --> 00:15:29.593
But somehow they never enforced.

319
00:15:30.493 --> 00:15:36.636
But what you're saying is, I think,

320
00:15:37.156 --> 00:15:38.237
is so true.

321
00:15:40.417 --> 00:15:41.838
And I say it in a different way.

322
00:15:42.418 --> 00:15:43.699
I always loved America.

323
00:15:44.239 --> 00:15:48.861
I always envied growing up as a
10-year-old or 11-year-old, you know.

324
00:15:49.365 --> 00:15:51.606
I'm looking at Norman Rockwell paintings.

325
00:15:51.607 --> 00:15:52.987
This is something foreign to you, Viv.

326
00:15:53.527 --> 00:16:00.051
And even to, it used to be on the cover of
the Life magazine, you know, the magazine

327
00:16:00.051 --> 00:16:02.051
of life.

328
00:16:02.051 --> 00:16:07.015
Norman Rockwell was a very well-known
artist in the 50s and that he painted

329
00:16:07.015 --> 00:16:09.015
American life, you know,

330
00:16:09.015 --> 00:16:10.577
and you'd have a family sitting around the
table cutting the turkey on

331
00:16:10.997 --> 00:16:16.261
Thanksgiving or a little boy eyeing a pie
that was left on the ledge to...

332
00:16:17.141 --> 00:16:21.324
you know, to air or whatever you do with
pies, you know, to cool down.

333
00:16:22.865 --> 00:16:29.509
And those are the kind of scenes that he
used to paint, this perfect American life,

334
00:16:29.509 --> 00:16:31.509
probably post-World War II.

335
00:16:31.509 --> 00:16:35.493
And, you know, baseball and those kind of
things, playing baseball in the streets

336
00:16:35.493 --> 00:16:37.493
and so on.

337
00:16:37.493 --> 00:16:38.855
And it's so far away from that at the
moment.

338
00:16:39.015 --> 00:16:41.337
It's just, it's nowhere close to.

339
00:16:41.929 --> 00:16:43.990
the perfect American life that
everybody...

340
00:16:43.991 --> 00:16:47.371
If it weren't for your family, David,
would you be visiting America?

341
00:16:50.012 --> 00:16:50.953
I don't think so.

342
00:16:52.153 --> 00:16:56.015
I don't, you know, I go there mainly to
see family.

343
00:16:56.175 --> 00:17:01.957
I enjoy New York and that, but I must
admit that, you know,

344
00:17:01.958 --> 00:17:06.039
the kind of things that we're talking
about now really concern me.

345
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:10.581
And you've seen changes now even in New
York.

346
00:17:12.166 --> 00:17:17.270
where you have the young mayor there who's
now starting to impose taxes on the rich

347
00:17:17.270 --> 00:17:17.490
city.

348
00:17:17.670 --> 00:17:19.572
And you know what I say about New York?

349
00:17:20.112 --> 00:17:21.594
It was built by rich people.

350
00:17:22.294 --> 00:17:23.615
That's what makes New York.

351
00:17:24.436 --> 00:17:30.861
And once you start to undermine that,
you're undermining the strength and the

352
00:17:30.861 --> 00:17:32.861
draw of the city.

353
00:17:32.861 --> 00:17:34.861
It runs on wealth.

354
00:17:34.861 --> 00:17:38.127
You know, mega museums that need the
funding to keep them going.

355
00:17:38.128 --> 00:17:40.309
You need Broadway, those kind of things.

356
00:17:40.937 --> 00:17:45.500
And the buildings, you know, those are the
things that attract everybody to this

357
00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:47.500
vibrant city.

358
00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:47.922
You want to undermine that, boy,

359
00:17:48.762 --> 00:17:54.246
you're starting to chip at the foundations
of the city and of the culture.

360
00:17:55.487 --> 00:18:01.991
Viv, the Brent crude oil price is $102.76
per barrel, which is up 0.8%

361
00:18:01.992 --> 00:18:07.555
on the day and probably up around about
10% since we spoke last Thursday, Viv.

362
00:18:08.055 --> 00:18:10.497
Now, 3.1%...

363
00:18:10.617 --> 00:18:17.081
is the South African inflation rate, 3.3%

364
00:18:17.082 --> 00:18:20.923
CPI inflation rate, the annual inflation
rate in the United Kingdom.

365
00:18:21.283 --> 00:18:24.665
Is this the calm before the storm, Viv,
these sort of three numbers?

366
00:18:24.685 --> 00:18:27.406
Are we going to see four, five and six in
the future?

367
00:18:27.626 --> 00:18:28.687
The IMF says 6%.

368
00:18:29.147 --> 00:18:29.847
What do you think?

369
00:18:31.048 --> 00:18:31.748
Most certainly.

370
00:18:31.748 --> 00:18:35.230
And it's going to get, I think, it's going
to be long the last thing Trump says.

371
00:18:35.291 --> 00:18:42.135
Trump says basically, you know, once it's
over, it's going to all fall down quickly,

372
00:18:42.135 --> 00:18:44.135
blah, His own energy secretary came out
and said,

373
00:18:44.135 --> 00:18:44.458
no, it's going to last until next year.

374
00:18:44.858 --> 00:18:47.821
We aren't going to see that the prices
return to normal until next year.

375
00:18:48.782 --> 00:18:51.445
We've already seen, for instance, let's
just say it ends tomorrow.

376
00:18:51.725 --> 00:18:57.811
You think India, you think China, you
think all the countries in the world are

377
00:18:57.811 --> 00:18:59.811
going to just go back to buying the normal
amount of oil that they were buying in the

378
00:18:59.811 --> 00:19:01.811
past?

379
00:19:01.811 --> 00:19:03.811
No.

380
00:19:03.811 --> 00:19:05.811
They're going to be scrambling to just
basically replenish the reserves that

381
00:19:05.811 --> 00:19:07.811
they've used up and maybe build up more
reserves.

382
00:19:07.811 --> 00:19:09.811
After this has happened, it must be
terrifying to be a leader of some of these

383
00:19:09.811 --> 00:19:11.811
countries.

384
00:19:11.811 --> 00:19:12.206
I mean, you have places in Asia,
especially, where they have gone to work

385
00:19:12.206 --> 00:19:14.206
from home by law,

386
00:19:14.206 --> 00:19:17.249
where they've basically implemented
different policies about, you know, going

387
00:19:17.249 --> 00:19:19.249
to school and that kind of stuff.

388
00:19:19.249 --> 00:19:21.249
They've been really badly hit.

389
00:19:21.249 --> 00:19:25.774
And the impact of this is going to be,
even if the physical stuff is removed in

390
00:19:25.774 --> 00:19:25.994
the next, say,

391
00:19:26.174 --> 00:19:29.535
week or two, fingers crossed, you know,
there is a deal to be done, though I think

392
00:19:29.535 --> 00:19:29.555
it's unlikely.

393
00:19:31.236 --> 00:19:33.558
Just the psychological impact of what's
happened right now.

394
00:19:33.877 --> 00:19:35.418
It's going to cause stockpiling.

395
00:19:35.418 --> 00:19:36.718
It's going to cause reserve building.

396
00:19:36.719 --> 00:19:42.880
It's going to cause changes in how people
are going to be basically purchasing oil,

397
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:43.340
etc.

398
00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:45.500
The market's going to take a long time to
recover.

399
00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:48.841
And I have not even talked about food,
which is a terrible thing.

400
00:19:49.121 --> 00:19:51.642
Unfortunately, it won't affect the places
in the world that we invest in.

401
00:19:51.643 --> 00:19:58.044
It won't be a case where you're worrying
about, for instance, you know, the Zonda

402
00:19:58.044 --> 00:20:00.044
Stock Exchange or the New York Stock
Exchange or, you know,

403
00:20:00.044 --> 00:20:02.044
Frankfurt or Shanghai, etc.

404
00:20:02.044 --> 00:20:02.585
but in many parts of the world, the impact
of this...

405
00:20:02.726 --> 00:20:09.109
particular thing on fertilizer and
therefore on food is going to be drastic

406
00:20:09.109 --> 00:20:11.109
and quite, I think, painful,

407
00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:11.149
which we have to be concerned about going
forward.

408
00:20:12.189 --> 00:20:12.889
Okay.

409
00:20:12.889 --> 00:20:16.232
And yes, David, the market is, let's have
a look at the market now.

410
00:20:16.272 --> 00:20:21.174
The S&P 500 futures, the S&P 500 futures
June,

411
00:20:21.175 --> 00:20:27.897
the June contract is 7,177, which is
unchanged on the day, David.

412
00:20:27.976 --> 00:20:30.217
And I don't want to look at it over the
last week.

413
00:20:30.638 --> 00:20:32.218
or month because it's up.

414
00:20:32.258 --> 00:20:33.279
I can't understand it.

415
00:20:33.679 --> 00:20:34.479
Please tell me why.

416
00:20:35.821 --> 00:20:36.521
You know what?

417
00:20:38.121 --> 00:20:45.065
The only explanation I can give is that
tech is having a

418
00:20:45.265 --> 00:20:47.006
massive impact on this market.

419
00:20:47.628 --> 00:20:53.690
And, you know, I talk about the two-lane
highway, and that one lane,

420
00:20:53.691 --> 00:20:56.773
the speedier lane, the fast lane, just
keeps going.

421
00:20:57.172 --> 00:20:58.714
And the more we look into it.

422
00:20:59.062 --> 00:21:03.822
You know, the more attractive it is, and
I'm just looking at some of the, you know,

423
00:21:04.764 --> 00:21:07.484
at some of the gains that are taking place
at the moment,

424
00:21:07.764 --> 00:21:12.186
there's still a massive demand for quality
tech shares.

425
00:21:14.066 --> 00:21:18.688
You know, Alphabet's up, Apple's up,
Amazon, Broadcom, all of these companies

426
00:21:18.688 --> 00:21:20.688
are up.

427
00:21:20.688 --> 00:21:25.730
You know, one or two are slightly down,
but overall, the focus is on tech

428
00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:25.789
earnings.

429
00:21:26.010 --> 00:21:26.889
And then also...

430
00:21:27.429 --> 00:21:32.991
One thing, you know, we've been talking
about the energy and the need for energy.

431
00:21:33.091 --> 00:21:38.712
And GE, Vinnova came out yesterday with
fabulous results, way up on where they

432
00:21:38.712 --> 00:21:40.712
were last year,

433
00:21:40.712 --> 00:21:42.053
simply on the demand for, you know, for
power.

434
00:21:42.133 --> 00:21:45.374
And all those companies around that are
benefiting as well.

435
00:21:45.694 --> 00:21:48.075
So I think that's what's holding the U.S.

436
00:21:48.135 --> 00:21:48.835
up.

437
00:21:48.895 --> 00:21:52.996
And, Lindsay, I'll come back to a
statement which, you know,

438
00:21:53.236 --> 00:21:56.737
which I've spoken to you often and
mentioned it in our talks.

439
00:21:57.237 --> 00:21:59.060
America, when you go there, they don't
care.

440
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:01.001
They're living their own lives.

441
00:22:01.241 --> 00:22:01.941
Exactly.

442
00:22:02.542 --> 00:22:09.087
The people in my building are more worried
about what's showing on Broadway or which

443
00:22:09.087 --> 00:22:11.087
restaurant to go through or whatever.

444
00:22:11.087 --> 00:22:13.087
They're not impacted by this.

445
00:22:13.087 --> 00:22:16.851
They don't even watch the news, local
news, just concerns about the weather and,

446
00:22:16.851 --> 00:22:18.851
as I say,

447
00:22:18.851 --> 00:22:18.852
a fire in Brooklyn or whatever it is.

448
00:22:19.254 --> 00:22:24.377
And that's why you're seeing this, you
know, the market as strong as it is.

449
00:22:24.397 --> 00:22:25.338
for most people.

450
00:22:25.678 --> 00:22:28.981
In America, they're focusing on the
underlying earnings.

451
00:22:29.421 --> 00:22:34.565
It's the rest of the world that are
suffering from the impact that Viv is

452
00:22:34.565 --> 00:22:36.565
talking about.

453
00:22:36.565 --> 00:22:40.050
You know, food, oil prices, energy prices,
just getting to work on a daily basis.

454
00:22:40.791 --> 00:22:45.815
Before we go to the markets, Viv, can you
give us any updates on AI this week, on

455
00:22:45.815 --> 00:22:47.815
tech this week?

456
00:22:47.815 --> 00:22:50.779
Because you're the one that's probably got
his finger on the pulse more than David

457
00:22:50.779 --> 00:22:52.779
and I have.

458
00:22:52.779 --> 00:22:54.779
Not that we haven't, of course.

459
00:22:54.779 --> 00:22:56.779
Viv, anything happening this week?

460
00:22:56.779 --> 00:22:58.071
I would like to give you a little run-on
on stats here.

461
00:22:58.172 --> 00:22:59.212
This is Anthropic, right?

462
00:22:59.213 --> 00:23:04.095
This is the company that's got the best
model out there despite having less money,

463
00:23:04.095 --> 00:23:04.415
etc.

464
00:23:04.774 --> 00:23:07.156
And it's like, they could argue why they
did it.

465
00:23:07.196 --> 00:23:09.278
Maybe they got more ethical, they got to
attract better people, whatever.

466
00:23:09.658 --> 00:23:10.858
This is a real breakdown.

467
00:23:10.978 --> 00:23:16.341
In 2024, they were making a million, 100
billion dollars a year, annual recurring

468
00:23:16.341 --> 00:23:16.422
revenue.

469
00:23:17.202 --> 00:23:19.863
By the end of that year, it went up 10
times to 1 billion.

470
00:23:20.324 --> 00:23:23.925
By the end of 2035, we went up 10 times
to, what, 9 times to 9 billion.

471
00:23:26.366 --> 00:23:28.087
By February, it is up to 14 billion.

472
00:23:29.088 --> 00:23:31.390
By April, which we are at right now, it's
at 30 billion.

473
00:23:31.810 --> 00:23:33.291
They're on track to get 100 billion this
year.

474
00:23:33.631 --> 00:23:39.936
They have gone up 10 times every year
since they started operating, basically,

475
00:23:40.416 --> 00:23:41.557
in terms of annual revenue.

476
00:23:41.997 --> 00:23:43.258
Okay, so extrapolate that.

477
00:23:43.418 --> 00:23:45.400
Extrapolate that, if you would.

478
00:23:46.260 --> 00:23:48.522
Extrapolate that by next year, they're
making 1% of global GDP.

479
00:23:48.582 --> 00:23:50.623
And the year after that, they're making
10% of global GDP a year.

480
00:23:51.124 --> 00:23:52.285
It is an impossible stat.

481
00:23:53.745 --> 00:23:56.761
But you know, I spoke to, just on that.

482
00:23:57.690 --> 00:24:02.832
I spoke to an analyst and a young chap
there at one of the very large wealth

483
00:24:02.832 --> 00:24:02.872
companies.

484
00:24:02.872 --> 00:24:03.773
I'm talking globally.

485
00:24:04.113 --> 00:24:07.374
And he's such an entertaining and
knowledgeable person.

486
00:24:07.814 --> 00:24:11.156
And he gave it, you know, he said exactly
what you're saying.

487
00:24:11.157 --> 00:24:15.718
He said, but the one thing that he said
that it's engineers that are using it.

488
00:24:16.158 --> 00:24:18.899
They are the ones who are, he called it
tokens.

489
00:24:18.919 --> 00:24:22.981
And the way he explained it to me, you
know, to us, he said, look, it's like

490
00:24:22.981 --> 00:24:24.981
electricity.

491
00:24:24.981 --> 00:24:25.682
You know, Anthropic provides electricity.

492
00:24:26.486 --> 00:24:33.212
chat GPT provide electricity you know you
plug your your kettle in or something like

493
00:24:33.212 --> 00:24:35.212
that that's what they're giving you that
energy

494
00:24:35.212 --> 00:24:40.198
you know and and trying to exploit it in
very basic terms but um he he what

495
00:24:40.199 --> 00:24:41.739
he said is that's

496
00:24:42.099 --> 00:24:48.585
that's the thing it's not the casual users
it's not me or river or lindsey you know

497
00:24:48.585 --> 00:24:48.765
kind of

498
00:24:48.765 --> 00:24:54.990
designing or doing something with it it's
engineers you know who are designing who

499
00:24:54.990 --> 00:24:56.990
are using it to to write code

500
00:24:56.990 --> 00:24:58.990
And that's what encouraged him.

501
00:24:58.990 --> 00:25:00.157
You know, that's why he was so excited
about what you're saying.

502
00:25:00.897 --> 00:25:01.677
Look at it this way, right?

503
00:25:02.178 --> 00:25:05.419
The $20 a month, you know, package, which
is what most people get.

504
00:25:05.439 --> 00:25:06.820
I mean, I have the $20 a month package.

505
00:25:06.821 --> 00:25:11.303
I might be looking at the $200 a month
package now because it's more useful.

506
00:25:11.663 --> 00:25:13.044
But the $20 a month package, right?

507
00:25:13.424 --> 00:25:20.007
If you had a billion people, right, a
billion people affording $20 a month,

508
00:25:20.007 --> 00:25:22.007
which probably has many people in the
world that can afford to spend $20 a month

509
00:25:22.007 --> 00:25:24.007
on AI,

510
00:25:24.007 --> 00:25:24.670
that roughly translates to about $240
billion, you know, dollars.

511
00:25:25.550 --> 00:25:26.250
a year.

512
00:25:27.051 --> 00:25:31.552
That's if like this is as many people that
spend the money spend it on Anthropic,

513
00:25:31.552 --> 00:25:33.552
that's all they get.

514
00:25:33.552 --> 00:25:36.993
Apparently, OpenAI has also got about 30
billion dollars in edge quotes ARR at the

515
00:25:36.993 --> 00:25:37.334
moment.

516
00:25:37.694 --> 00:25:42.395
And the Chinese models, apparently the six
most used models in the world are Chinese.

517
00:25:42.735 --> 00:25:44.275
So it's in these two companies.

518
00:25:44.856 --> 00:25:48.477
So the demand for this these tokens are
going up and the reason is because of the

519
00:25:48.477 --> 00:25:48.596
agents.

520
00:25:48.857 --> 00:25:52.998
The agents with that continuous referring
back to you know that loops that they're

521
00:25:52.998 --> 00:25:53.259
using.

522
00:25:53.298 --> 00:25:58.362
are really driving up demand for this, as
well as, of course, the thinking models,

523
00:25:58.362 --> 00:26:00.362
which basically, again,

524
00:26:00.362 --> 00:26:03.406
have the loop in them that basically make
them use much more data than the output,

525
00:26:03.406 --> 00:26:05.406
or much more tokens than the output.

526
00:26:05.406 --> 00:26:09.972
So, yeah, it does appear that, you know,
as David said, you know,

527
00:26:10.492 --> 00:26:15.556
there's a famous world you ran a quote, I
think it is, people focus on the stream

528
00:26:15.556 --> 00:26:17.556
when all the stuff is really happening on
the banks,

529
00:26:17.556 --> 00:26:22.022
we mean you focus on the war and the death
and whatnot, and all the really important

530
00:26:22.022 --> 00:26:24.022
stuff is happening with technology and,
you know, culture.

531
00:26:24.022 --> 00:26:26.022
And this is the case here.

532
00:26:26.022 --> 00:26:28.505
We are focusing on Iran and all the crazy
stuff is happening with the culture, with

533
00:26:28.505 --> 00:26:28.624
the technology.

534
00:26:29.265 --> 00:26:35.848
And I honestly believe in like, say, 100
years from now, if you look back at this

535
00:26:35.848 --> 00:26:37.848
time, let's just say we're also alive in
the future, who might be because of AI.

536
00:26:37.848 --> 00:26:39.269
We will think back as to this is the start
of AI.

537
00:26:39.489 --> 00:26:42.730
This is not the start of, you know, the
Iran war, whatever happens.

538
00:26:43.070 --> 00:26:44.431
Like we think back to the early 2000s.

539
00:26:44.651 --> 00:26:45.812
Yes, there was 9-11.

540
00:26:46.332 --> 00:26:51.654
But, you know, we probably in the future
are going to remember it more for the

541
00:26:51.654 --> 00:26:53.654
start when the Internet companies like,
you know, Google and…

542
00:26:53.654 --> 00:26:56.756
Facebooks and so on started in the early
2000s, as opposed to, yes, we had this

543
00:26:56.756 --> 00:26:58.756
major terrorist attack in the US.

544
00:26:58.917 --> 00:26:59.617
Gentlemen.

545
00:26:59.657 --> 00:27:00.357
Get it.

546
00:27:02.218 --> 00:27:04.919
Yeah, a silence there, a stunned silence.

547
00:27:04.959 --> 00:27:11.182
But I'm going to break that silence by
saying the names of three companies,

548
00:27:11.182 --> 00:27:13.182
David, Valterra, Cecil,

549
00:27:13.182 --> 00:27:14.503
they came up with updates and they're both
down today.

550
00:27:14.683 --> 00:27:17.184
That's because of international markets a
little bit as well.

551
00:27:17.244 --> 00:27:19.005
But the updates weren't particularly good.

552
00:27:19.405 --> 00:27:20.365
Share price is down.

553
00:27:21.106 --> 00:27:21.806
Clicks.

554
00:27:21.850 --> 00:27:23.390
Clicks, clicks, David.

555
00:27:23.651 --> 00:27:25.731
Clicks down 8.25%.

556
00:27:25.751 --> 00:27:27.572
Did you read the update from clicks?

557
00:27:29.012 --> 00:27:31.773
I'm sorry to say I haven't.

558
00:27:32.733 --> 00:27:33.813
Stun silence again.

559
00:27:35.634 --> 00:27:36.774
You know what I did read?

560
00:27:36.854 --> 00:27:37.554
That's why.

561
00:27:37.895 --> 00:27:44.796
What I was focusing on was another beauty
company called L'Oreal, which is the

562
00:27:44.796 --> 00:27:46.796
opposite of clicks, the international,

563
00:27:46.796 --> 00:27:48.796
which is up about 8%.

564
00:27:48.796 --> 00:27:49.818
But while you are on it.

565
00:27:50.326 --> 00:27:53.948
8.8, which is unusual.

566
00:27:53.949 --> 00:27:56.630
It came up with a trading update, so
obviously it came up with something.

567
00:27:56.930 --> 00:27:59.751
And I know that you don't invest in that.

568
00:28:00.191 --> 00:28:00.891
Yeah, exactly.

569
00:28:01.072 --> 00:28:02.012
Okay, so you don't know.

570
00:28:02.052 --> 00:28:03.613
So let's not harp upon that.

571
00:28:03.653 --> 00:28:10.337
But anyway, the point is that it was a bad
day on the JSC today, and I picked out

572
00:28:10.337 --> 00:28:12.337
three companies, Clix,

573
00:28:12.337 --> 00:28:13.799
Volterra, and Sasol, driving it down.

574
00:28:14.219 --> 00:28:19.462
Let me give you some prices now, because
it's interesting.

575
00:28:20.942 --> 00:28:24.703
Let me get rid of that little tab that's
just jumped up on my screen, which I hate.

576
00:28:25.063 --> 00:28:28.204
The dollar round is 1647.

577
00:28:28.205 --> 00:28:34.046
The British pound against the round is
2225.

578
00:28:34.166 --> 00:28:34.866
The euro round is

579
00:28:34.966 --> 00:28:43.429
1930.

580
00:28:43.430 --> 00:28:46.529
Euro dollar is 11765.

581
00:28:46.530 --> 00:28:48.190
The gold price is unchanged at 4737.

582
00:28:48.191 --> 00:28:48.891
The platinum price is down 2%.

583
00:28:50.096 --> 00:28:57.085
2043 and yeah it's it's not a good day for
commodities actually and i'm going to go

584
00:28:57.085 --> 00:28:59.085
straight now to the oil price

585
00:28:59.085 --> 00:29:04.312
which i i told you earlier on and i was
using it as a reference to viv question.

586
00:29:04.953 --> 00:29:07.275
And the question is now, where's it going?

587
00:29:07.635 --> 00:29:11.799
And the question to me is now people are
saying, oh, well, we're used to it now.

588
00:29:12.219 --> 00:29:18.845
When Lindsay Williams says it's $103.08
per barrel, up 1.1%, a big deal,

589
00:29:18.865 --> 00:29:19.565
we're used to.

590
00:29:19.725 --> 00:29:24.790
But the figures will start to come
through, the 3.1%, the 3.3% inflation

591
00:29:24.790 --> 00:29:26.790
rates.

592
00:29:26.790 --> 00:29:28.790
I don't know.

593
00:29:28.790 --> 00:29:30.790
Is this something that we should be
sanguine about?

594
00:29:30.790 --> 00:29:32.556
It's 103.20 now, the oil price up.

595
00:29:32.576 --> 00:29:33.597
up one and a quarter percent.

596
00:29:33.598 --> 00:29:38.480
The West Texas is $93.77.

597
00:29:38.540 --> 00:29:44.944
The copper price, which is important,
$6.09 per pound, which is down half a

598
00:29:44.944 --> 00:29:45.124
percent.

599
00:29:45.124 --> 00:29:50.889
The South African 10-year bond yield is
8.625 percent on the close,

600
00:29:51.289 --> 00:29:52.690
up seven basis points.

601
00:29:53.050 --> 00:29:53.750
The U.S.

602
00:29:53.811 --> 00:29:59.454
10-year, this is the one I'm interested in
now 4.29%.

603
00:29:59.455 --> 00:30:01.516
I think that's going to 5, 550.

604
00:30:01.936 --> 00:30:06.997
by the end of the year but that's just me
uh s p 500 futures we mentioned them

605
00:30:06.997 --> 00:30:07.298
earlier

606
00:30:07.298 --> 00:30:13.579
7178 up very very slightly on the day and
bitcoin is uh

607
00:30:14.760 --> 00:30:21.361
78 368 so that's what a one percent one
percent fall

608
00:30:21.762 --> 00:30:28.503
david the market's looking a little bit a
little bit fragile looking a little bit

609
00:30:28.503 --> 00:30:30.503
cracked if you like.

610
00:30:30.503 --> 00:30:32.503
Yeah.

611
00:30:32.788 --> 00:30:33.488
You've gone.

612
00:30:34.449 --> 00:30:36.451
The inflation number that we, I'm here.

613
00:30:36.452 --> 00:30:37.152
Are you there?

614
00:30:37.152 --> 00:30:37.752
There you are now, yes.

615
00:30:37.852 --> 00:30:38.552
Thank you.

616
00:30:39.093 --> 00:30:39.793
Okay.

617
00:30:40.615 --> 00:30:46.720
You know, the inflation number yesterday,
which was 3%, 3.1%, doesn't reflect what

618
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:48.720
lies ahead.

619
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.745
And as you go on about the oil price, it's
very serious for countries like South

620
00:30:52.745 --> 00:30:52.804
Africa.

621
00:30:53.185 --> 00:30:59.050
And I think there is a deep fear that it's
going to eat into profits, eat into

622
00:30:59.050 --> 00:31:01.050
margins,

623
00:31:01.050 --> 00:31:03.050
and certainly hurt the...

624
00:31:03.050 --> 00:31:08.084
consumer, because oil and travel is a big,
travel, petrol is a big part of our

625
00:31:08.084 --> 00:31:08.244
economy,

626
00:31:08.244 --> 00:31:11.587
not only from private people, but from
businesses as well.

627
00:31:11.987 --> 00:31:16.530
And I think there is this concern about
where rates are going.

628
00:31:16.650 --> 00:31:22.194
And then on the other hand, you've got
falling commodity prices that we saw

629
00:31:22.194 --> 00:31:24.194
today, oil down.

630
00:31:24.194 --> 00:31:26.817
They're not going anywhere, Lindsay.

631
00:31:27.177 --> 00:31:30.540
The gold's at 4,700, having been at 5'3".

632
00:31:31.016 --> 00:31:31.956
or higher than that.

633
00:31:32.716 --> 00:31:35.077
And I think it's concerning people.

634
00:31:35.117 --> 00:31:37.438
We're not going to repeat what we saw last
year.

635
00:31:37.738 --> 00:31:39.718
So our markets are fragile.

636
00:31:40.098 --> 00:31:41.859
Our market is very, very fragile.

637
00:31:42.639 --> 00:31:45.580
And the retailers are reflecting that.

638
00:31:46.080 --> 00:31:52.382
I don't know what happened to Clix,
because while you were talking, I looked

639
00:31:52.382 --> 00:31:54.382
at the major issue,

640
00:31:54.382 --> 00:31:56.382
and there was nothing there.

641
00:31:56.382 --> 00:31:58.382
There's nothing there at all, actually.

642
00:31:58.382 --> 00:32:00.404
It says here, group turnover up 7.4%,
trading margin.

643
00:32:00.824 --> 00:32:02.845
maintained at 9.1%.

644
00:32:02.846 --> 00:32:05.405
Viv, when was the last time you went to
clicks?

645
00:32:05.645 --> 00:32:07.966
Viv Govender, you must have gone to clicks
recently.

646
00:32:09.126 --> 00:32:13.587
Yeah, I prove my local pharmacy, but I do
go to clicks occasionally.

647
00:32:13.888 --> 00:32:18.089
And look, I mean, it's obviously a
purchase that people have to make, but a

648
00:32:18.089 --> 00:32:20.089
lot of stuff is like people say,

649
00:32:20.089 --> 00:32:24.951
obviously driven by the luxury demand
because a lot of the money comes from

650
00:32:24.951 --> 00:32:26.951
things that throw a few money and so on
and toiletries.

651
00:32:26.951 --> 00:32:30.412
The one thing I want to talk about is that
you talked about the Federal Reserve

652
00:32:30.412 --> 00:32:32.412
interest rate going to 5% this year.

653
00:32:32.412 --> 00:32:32.469
Do you really believe that's going to be
the case with Washington?

654
00:32:32.489 --> 00:32:34.549
No, no, the US 10-year, the US 10-year.

655
00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:37.530
That's what I think.

656
00:32:38.650 --> 00:32:39.871
But anyway, it's the same thing.

657
00:32:40.711 --> 00:32:44.672
With the Fed basically coming, you know,
with the Fed chair changing,

658
00:32:44.673 --> 00:32:48.233
do you think that might not be something
that the markets may be overestimating?

659
00:32:48.273 --> 00:32:52.354
Because I think he's going to be a lot
more dovish, because that's what Trump is

660
00:32:52.354 --> 00:32:54.354
bringing in place for.

661
00:32:54.354 --> 00:32:57.975
He has said, his phrase was, wash the new
Fed chair.

662
00:32:58.816 --> 00:32:59.856
He said he will not...

663
00:33:00.036 --> 00:33:01.957
be a glove puppet.

664
00:33:01.958 --> 00:33:04.038
He will not be Trump's glove puppet.

665
00:33:04.398 --> 00:33:07.399
So, in other words, he's set out his
stool.

666
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:09.880
He's saying that, but does he believe it?

667
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:10.620
I don't know.

668
00:33:11.381 --> 00:33:12.081
Viv,

669
00:33:12.081 --> 00:33:18.564
I don't think that they can cut rates much
more with gas prices at 4.20 a gallon

670
00:33:18.744 --> 00:33:22.545
in the United States across the many
states, I think.

671
00:33:23.005 --> 00:33:27.787
If you look at Trump's people he's put in
this time around, they have been sock

672
00:33:27.787 --> 00:33:27.987
puppets.

673
00:33:27.987 --> 00:33:29.228
They've been Cash Patel, Hexit.

674
00:33:29.748 --> 00:33:36.454
Even people like that Trustee Noem was
replaced, he basically has been choosing

675
00:33:36.454 --> 00:33:38.454
people for loyalty.

676
00:33:38.454 --> 00:33:40.117
And I don't know if the Fed chair is going
to be different.

677
00:33:40.397 --> 00:33:47.343
And I do honestly think that if you had to
basically bet on what the market thinks

678
00:33:47.343 --> 00:33:49.343
the logical thing for the Fed to do for
the year and what the actual outcome for

679
00:33:49.343 --> 00:33:51.343
the Fed for the year is,

680
00:33:51.343 --> 00:33:54.149
you wouldn't be too off base to basically
assume that whatever the logical, normal,

681
00:33:54.149 --> 00:33:56.149
average Fed chair would have done in the
past,

682
00:33:56.149 --> 00:33:57.552
this person is going to be basically one
or two cuts below that.

683
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:04.685
you know in terms of outcomes uh so i i
wanted to like you know basically maybe a

684
00:34:04.685 --> 00:34:06.685
half percent or a quarter percent below
what the

685
00:34:06.685 --> 00:34:09.688
normal uh reaction is going to be uh by a
fed share and i think that's something to

686
00:34:09.688 --> 00:34:11.688
be concerned about another

687
00:34:11.688 --> 00:34:12.454
that's weakening the long-term stability
of the U.S.

688
00:34:13.115 --> 00:34:14.256
And this is what I want to highlight.

689
00:34:14.256 --> 00:34:15.477
It's what's happening in the U.S.

690
00:34:15.497 --> 00:34:16.197
right now.

691
00:34:16.197 --> 00:34:17.378
It's not just what Trump is doing now.

692
00:34:17.419 --> 00:34:24.084
It's the effect on the long-term stability
of the country that's going to last way

693
00:34:24.084 --> 00:34:26.084
after his leaving power,

694
00:34:26.084 --> 00:34:28.084
you know, hopefully in a couple of years'
time.

695
00:34:28.084 --> 00:34:31.870
On the JSC today, Anglo-American up 5.1%,

696
00:34:31.870 --> 00:34:37.675
British-American tobacco up 2.5%, Aspen up
2.4%,

697
00:34:37.814 --> 00:34:42.597
Boxer up one and a third, and MTN at 1.1%
on the downside,

698
00:34:42.678 --> 00:34:46.459
Clix down 8.3%.

699
00:34:46.459 --> 00:34:53.240
Karoo down 5%, Northam's down nearly 5%,
and Diskem, after Clix,

700
00:34:53.740 --> 00:34:55.921
down 4.8%.

701
00:34:55.921 --> 00:34:57.242
Anything else you're seeing, David?

702
00:34:59.142 --> 00:35:00.483
I think you've covered most of them.

703
00:35:00.562 --> 00:35:05.403
Just on Clix, do you know that we're back
to where we were in 2020?

704
00:35:05.883 --> 00:35:07.885
That's how far down this company.

705
00:35:08.601 --> 00:35:10.563
I'm quite shattered by that, you know,

706
00:35:10.643 --> 00:35:16.588
because this was one of these dependable
businesses that you thought would just go

707
00:35:16.588 --> 00:35:18.588
up and up.

708
00:35:18.588 --> 00:35:22.632
And we kept saying, oh, you know, it's
it's you can rely on it.

709
00:35:22.672 --> 00:35:23.493
It's dependable.

710
00:35:23.913 --> 00:35:28.317
And I'm actually shattered to see how far
back it has come down.

711
00:35:30.590 --> 00:35:31.310
It's quite a worry.

712
00:35:31.330 --> 00:35:32.030
So wait a second.

713
00:35:32.050 --> 00:35:32.749
Say that again.

714
00:35:33.611 --> 00:35:34.351
Where are we now?

715
00:35:34.571 --> 00:35:35.492
If I look at a chart.

716
00:35:35.493 --> 00:35:40.293
The share price is 275.88 I've got.

717
00:35:40.294 --> 00:35:40.994
So what is that?

718
00:35:40.994 --> 00:35:41.515
Okay.

719
00:35:41.734 --> 00:35:48.257
So if we go back, if I go back to, this is
where it was in 2023.

720
00:35:48.517 --> 00:35:54.779
But if you go further down the line, you
know, it's kind of the same area that it

721
00:35:54.779 --> 00:35:56.779
was in

722
00:35:56.779 --> 00:35:58.761
2021. And it reached peaks.

723
00:35:59.296 --> 00:36:03.419
round about 20, I'm just looking here, at
the end of 24,

724
00:36:04.218 --> 00:36:08.481
fell up again in 2025, a year ago.

725
00:36:08.541 --> 00:36:15.323
So one year ago, we had this at 339,000,
call it 700.

726
00:36:15.903 --> 00:36:16.725
We're down to where?

727
00:36:16.726 --> 00:36:21.486
28,000, 29,000 now, or below that, 28,000.

728
00:36:21.947 --> 00:36:23.327
That's the kind of fall that we see.

729
00:36:23.668 --> 00:36:24.548
Dramatic fall.

730
00:36:24.867 --> 00:36:27.008
And I think it's It's, it's, it's.

731
00:36:27.089 --> 00:36:33.955
In fact, right across the board that we're
starting to see retailers falling

732
00:36:33.955 --> 00:36:35.955
similarly.

733
00:36:35.955 --> 00:36:40.521
So it always pays to have a look at a
chart, but I'm actually quite shaken about

734
00:36:40.521 --> 00:36:42.521
this one.

735
00:36:42.521 --> 00:36:43.704
I don't follow companies in that,

736
00:36:43.784 --> 00:36:50.049
but I'm quite surprised at the kind of
fall that we have seen in a company which

737
00:36:50.049 --> 00:36:52.049
was like pick and pay,

738
00:36:52.049 --> 00:36:52.672
the mainstay of the retail sector.

739
00:36:54.372 --> 00:36:56.014
Bang goes my crystal challenge.

740
00:36:56.073 --> 00:36:57.834
Did you?

741
00:36:58.274 --> 00:36:59.155
Listen, I'm with you.

742
00:36:59.555 --> 00:37:01.615
I also got all the retailers.

743
00:37:01.715 --> 00:37:07.878
I was full with them saying this is going
to be the

744
00:37:07.898 --> 00:37:09.198
year.

745
00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:09.899
This is going to be the year.

746
00:37:09.899 --> 00:37:10.399
Yeah.

747
00:37:10.399 --> 00:37:10.479
Exactly.

748
00:37:10.479 --> 00:37:10.699
Okay.

749
00:37:10.699 --> 00:37:10.960
Oh, dear.

750
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:12.019
Okay, gentlemen, what a fascinating chat.

751
00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:13.240
Thank you very much for your time.

752
00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:16.401
Viv Govender is from Rann, Swiss, in
Johannesburg.

753
00:37:16.461 --> 00:37:18.943
David, also from the same city.

754
00:37:19.043 --> 00:37:21.104
David Shapiro from Sasson Securities.

755
00:37:21.104 --> 00:37:23.104
And that was the 5 o'clock shadow.

756
00:37:23.629 --> 00:37:30.571
The views and opinions expressed in these
podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and

757
00:37:30.571 --> 00:37:32.571
various contributors and do not reflect
the policy,

758
00:37:32.571 --> 00:37:34.332
position or opinion of any other agency,
organisation,

759
00:37:34.652 --> 00:37:39.293
employer or company associated with
StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com.

760
00:37:39.753 --> 00:37:46.715
Assumptions made on the analyses are not
reflective of the position of any other

761
00:37:46.715 --> 00:37:48.715
entity other than the speaker or the
author.

762
00:37:48.715 --> 00:37:53.177
And since we are critically thinking human
beings, these views are always subject to

763
00:37:53.177 --> 00:37:55.177
change, revision, and revision.

764
00:37:55.177 --> 00:37:57.177
and rethinking at any time.

765
00:37:57.177 --> 00:37:57.765
Please do not hold us to them in
perpetuity.
