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You're listening to Strictly Business
Podcast with Lindsay Williams.

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The JSC has closed its doors for another
day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock

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shadow.

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And as always on a Wednesday, I speak to
Skullclo, Portfolio Manager at PSG Wealth

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Old Oak in

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Cape Town.

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Now, I want to rant a bit, Skullclo, will
you allow me to do so?

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You can say no, by the way.

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I'll get it.

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feeling that it's not gonna matter anyway
no it would do if you said no i would just

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see the bit okay i'm

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here wake up everybody the lunatic has
taken over the asylum we've known that for

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a while

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and everybody that says well he's gonna
say this and the ceasefire will do this

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and the ceasefire will do that just like
the ceasefire

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between israel and lebanon is a real thing
no it's not there

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was a drone attack by israel by israel on
lebanon today causing death.

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So it's not happening.

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There's no ceasefire.

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Trump doesn't have a strategy on what he
wants to do.

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He doesn't have a coherent theme of what
he's going to do.

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He doesn't have a goal.

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He didn't say, I need to go into Iran
because I want this.

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And he's almost admitted that with his
ramblings.

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Wake up, everybody.

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The oil price, more importantly, is $100 a
barrel.

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It was $60 a barrel in October.

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That means that inflation is going up.

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That means that interest rates are going
up.

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That means you've got less money in your
pocket.

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That means that companies that are listed
on exchanges are earning less.

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Therefore, their earnings are coming down.

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That means that the stock market falls.

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Just wake up, everybody.

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We've had a few weeks of, you know, think,
oh, well, maybe this, maybe that.

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No, not maybe anything.

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We're in for the long term here.

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And as I said,

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the lunatic has taken over the asylum
how's the market skunk you feeling

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better now no actually no i'm not one of
those people i'm gonna continue and i'm

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gonna speak to this

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african listeners now because i

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mean what what what this boils down to is
the whole globe is

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putting pressure on on trump the u.s and
also israel to to Thank you.

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Well, Iran, to get around the table and
get this peace deal done.

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Why?

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And as you mentioned, we're sitting with a
$100 oil mark.

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And for the listeners out there, where are
we now in the cycle?

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I mean, we had a massive, massive,

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massive jump in the petrol price and
diesel prices last month.

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Now as we sit here, There's basically the
central energy fund.

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They're actually on a daily basis.

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Beautiful.

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It's like if a daily, where the oil price
currently is, if it stays unchanged,

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we should either see a raise or a drop in
the petrol slash diesel prices.

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As we sit here, if the oil price stay at
these current levels, remember, they came

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off a little bit.

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They're not the $110 levels anymore.

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They reached almost $120 around about
five, six weeks ago, I think it was.

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And it was a spike.

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But the average is the most important
thing, Skulk.

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And before you go on, the point is that
people say, oh, it's just speculators.

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No, it's not speculators because the
market has stayed where it is.

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It's currently $100 a barrel on the
futures market for Brent crude oil.

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And people can't get oil anymore, so
they're paying up.

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at whatever price for whatever oil they
can get from whatever part of the world.

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So that filters through to the global oil
market.

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It's $100 a barrel.

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And it doesn't matter whether you're in
Alabama or Afghanistan.

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Oil is $100 a barrel.

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And that's what you pay if you have the
luxury of having a car.

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That's it.

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But for those who don't have a car,
they'll need to make use of a taxi.

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They'll need to make use of...

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Some sort of transportation.

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As we sit here, if the oil price stay
unchanged, as of yesterday's close,

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the Central Energy Fund predicting that
the petrol price,

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and here I'm using the 95 unleaded, petrol
price should go up further.

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2.25 rand.

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Diesel, wait for it.

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6.60 rand.

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Get out.

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And remember, this is not...

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As Lindsay mentioned, this is not the
world price trading at $110, $120 anymore.

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It's now come off.

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It's actually better levels.

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I mean, we're sitting with a president in
the USA talking about a victory, an

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indefinite ceasefire.

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I still need to find out what's the
difference between an indefinite ceasefire

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and actually the war being over.

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But anyway, an indefinite ceasefire,
massive victory, blah,

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And we as South Africans, and we're not
the only, I mean, I think I've seen the

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other day something like Malawi,

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they currently, we're sitting at about 20
odd rand per litre,

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they're already something like 50 or 55
rand per litre, per litre.

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And running out of it as well.

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And totally running out of it.

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So this is going to have a detrimental
effect on the world economy, South Africa

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not excluded.

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We went into this year, and I know they've
now recalculated and said, well, inflation

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that came out

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3.1-ish, already north of the 3% mark that
they're aiming for,

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they now say it should settle around the
3.7% mark.

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And already you can see, the Reserve Bank
being a little bit more hawkish,

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not as positive as they went into this
year.

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stating we should see a few interest rate
cuts in 2026, very similar to the Fed.

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As we sit here,

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we're not expecting any interest rate cuts
from the Fed for the rest of this year,

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if you look at the probabilities according
to the CME Fed tool.

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If you look at locally already, Kahnia is
saying, well,

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if we're going to have pressure on
inflation upwards or further inflation

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pressures upwards,

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we're going to have no choice.

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We're going to have to hike interest
rates.

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And as you mentioned, Lindsay, this is
going to have a massive, massive effect on

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us.

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Because not only are we as South Africans
paying more for our fuel,

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it will definitely have an effect on food
prices because that will increase food

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prices.

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It will also mean that our debt repayment
or debt servicing will also increase.

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That's a crazy, crazy negative
environment.

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And then I'm looking at...

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the US market today and I'm seeing S&P 500
is up close to 1%

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Nasdaq up 1.25% I saw it today and I
looked at it this morning throughout the

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day, even from midnight because I,

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whatever I saw the opening of the real
markets at midnight, everything was going

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up,

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but all going up in tandem, gold was going
up, oil was going up,

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the index futures were going up I didn't
understand what was going on and as you

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speak speak,

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as we speak, the oil price has just fallen
a dollar.

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It's now only up 2% on the day, but it's
still up on the day.

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And as you say, the index futures in the
United States, actually, the real market

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is up, and gold is up as well.

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What is going on?

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I think what it is, is there's so much
money out there, Skulk, that people are

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just buying, and they're just buying
anything they can.

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There's no rationale.

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It's like the Trump war policy, just buy
the thing, for goodness sake.

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Do you understand it?

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I don't.

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I don't.

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And that makes this dangerous.

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That makes this dangerous.

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We were really, I mean, the other day we
were talking about, oh, there we go.

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S&P 500 above 7,000 points.

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We talked about new all-time highs.

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I just can't believe we're sitting at new
all-time highs while we're sitting with

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this volatile period.

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We're sitting with the oil price.

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Anyway, we can sort of debate this.

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We can.

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sort of frown upon us but i think the one
thing that listeners out there should be

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very very careful because

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this i i'm unfortunately this this feels
this feels like a bear trap all over it

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really feels like

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there's something there's something
brewing out there and people are being too

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sanguine they're being too calm

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about it they're being yeah they're saying
ah please we've seen this all before but

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this time we haven't seen it before

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because of all the reasons that i said in
my rant at the beginning.

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There is something going on, Skalk.

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What will happen to gold if something does
go on?

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Will the people that are long of gold,
holding gold, say, OK,

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we've got to sell gold now in order to pay
off our margin calls on other markets?

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That's a possibility.

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Well, they might use some treasury bills
as well.

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Oh, that's my big sell of the year.

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The U.S.

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Treasury bill, the U.S.

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Treasury bond, everything.

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I mean, it's taking a while, but the US
10-year will be at 550, 650 by the end of

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the year, without a doubt.

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And the other thing that I have to comment
upon after your analysis, Lesechuk and

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Yago...

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Jay Powell, Walsh, the new incoming Fed
chairman, Christine Lagarde and

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Bailey at the Bank of England, they don't
know.

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They don't know any better than we do.

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We are as good as they are skunk because
we don't know as well.

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We don't know what's going to go on.

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So how can they say, well, we think
inflation is going to peak at 3.8%

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in the UK after the UK inflation came out
today at 3.3%.

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The South African came out at 3.1%.

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you Yes, that's all very willing.

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It all sounds nice.

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But in the future, it's not going to be
there.

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It'll go up to 4% or 3.8%.

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And then after that, if the oil price is
still 100 or 95, it'll go on from there.

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Nobody knows.

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And that's what's so scary as well.

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Remember, they look at the now.

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And we're talking about central banks
slash reserve banks.

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They look at the now.

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They look at the data available to them
now.

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And they make, I remember in COVID, it was
very similar.

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Remember, these are central bankers.

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They're not doctors.

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So they can't predict what COVID is going
to do over the next 12 months.

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So they look at what the commodity prices
do back then, and they sort of extrapolate

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that on their models.

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And similar there, nobody, they're not war
analysts or political analysts to sort of

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forecast where this

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war is going.

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So they look at the data now and say,
well, this is where.

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Well, I'm saying that if we're going to
see this war, where did I read that today?

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I was a political war analyst, but

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I think it boils down to do not take what
Trump says every two, three days.

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But this war is over.

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It's done as this will be done in the next
day or two.

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Expect months.

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Expect months.

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So, yeah.

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If we see months, I'm telling you now
we're going to see a massive, massive

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pressure on inflation.

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I think and I still I like your bet.

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I like your call.

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I think I think a lot of these larger
investors in the world will look at this

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as well and say, well,

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if it's going to be a pressure on
inflation, there's going to be pressure on

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rates.

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Then I'd rather be selling selling my
treasury bills and invest.

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even further in gold because that still
remains one of the base hedges against a

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rising inflation tide.

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Anyway, let's not go to gold again.

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You know my view, and that's why I haven't
sold mine yet.

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That's why I would definitely encourage
all my clients.

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You've taken some profits, though.

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I did.

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I did.

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And I must admit, any weakness, any
further weakness, I will look at

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accumulating some more.

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Bye, Beck.

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OK, let's have a look at the markets now
with the RAND at $1, that is at 1647.

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British pound against the RAND 2224.

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The EUR RAND is 1930.

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On to commodities now.

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Well, the gold price, the aforementioned,
is on my screen.

238
00:13:02.994 --> 00:13:03.775
Come on screen.

239
00:13:05.356 --> 00:13:06.256
Why does it do that?

240
00:13:07.577 --> 00:13:09.399
I hate it when things pop up in front of
you.

241
00:13:09.979 --> 00:13:13.021
Scalp, the gold price is 4730.

242
00:13:13.461 --> 00:13:20.324
which is up just over half a percent now
if we go down to the white metals we've

243
00:13:20.324 --> 00:13:22.324
got platinum up

244
00:13:22.324 --> 00:13:27.247
two percent or 44 to 2085 the palladium
price is 1564

245
00:13:27.447 --> 00:13:33.329
up one and a half percent now onto the oil
price which is very interesting i'm not

246
00:13:33.329 --> 00:13:35.329
hugely bullish of it

247
00:13:35.329 --> 00:13:36.230
gosh it's gone up another dollar when

248
00:13:36.831 --> 00:13:42.253
we were first speaking this is how mad it
is it was 101 15 it went down to

249
00:13:42.833 --> 00:13:44.434
100.25.

250
00:13:44.454 --> 00:13:48.898
It's now $101.38 per barrel, up 3%.

251
00:13:49.018 --> 00:13:49.899
That's Brent crude.

252
00:13:50.239 --> 00:13:54.343
We've got West Texas at $92.33, up 3%.

253
00:13:56.104 --> 00:14:01.169
Copper price, $6.12 per pound,

254
00:14:01.629 --> 00:14:03.310
up 1.9%.

255
00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:05.432
And, yeah, what else have we got?

256
00:14:05.492 --> 00:14:10.877
The South African 10-year, not having a
good day, up 11.5 basis points.

257
00:14:11.237 --> 00:14:16.261
or 1.3% to 8.55%.

258
00:14:16.262 --> 00:14:21.565
And the US 10-year, this is the one I like
or don't like, 4.29%.

259
00:14:21.566 --> 00:14:26.169
That yield is going to 5, 550, 650, as I
said earlier on.

260
00:14:26.550 --> 00:14:29.572
It is going to be trashed throughout this
year.

261
00:14:30.273 --> 00:14:31.734
S&P 500 futures.

262
00:14:33.275 --> 00:14:35.417
I still can't believe I'm saying this,
Skulk.

263
00:14:35.657 --> 00:14:40.721
It's up 0.84% to 715.

264
00:14:41.249 --> 00:14:41.949
9.

265
00:14:42.255 --> 00:14:42.956
0.50.

266
00:14:42.957 --> 00:14:47.619
7,159.25.

267
00:14:47.620 --> 00:14:54.264
Do these people who trade the S&P, invest
in the S&P, not watch television, not

268
00:14:54.264 --> 00:14:56.264
listen to us on our podcast every evening?

269
00:14:56.264 --> 00:14:57.506
Maybe that's why they're making so much
more money than I am.

270
00:14:57.766 --> 00:14:58.466
Yeah.

271
00:14:58.466 --> 00:14:59.348
Because they're not listening to me.

272
00:15:01.269 --> 00:15:01.990
Great stuff.

273
00:15:02.270 --> 00:15:02.970
Great stuff.

274
00:15:03.371 --> 00:15:04.091
Okay.

275
00:15:04.271 --> 00:15:04.971
Bitcoin.

276
00:15:06.052 --> 00:15:06.752
Wow.

277
00:15:06.752 --> 00:15:09.155
Nearly 79,000 up over.

278
00:15:09.875 --> 00:15:10.575
4%.

279
00:15:10.576 --> 00:15:11.956
What happened on the JSC today?

280
00:15:11.957 --> 00:15:13.097
I saw Quilter doing well.

281
00:15:13.098 --> 00:15:14.758
I saw AMSA doing horribly.

282
00:15:16.459 --> 00:15:20.641
So what we've seen today, it was a quiet
day.

283
00:15:21.061 --> 00:15:22.902
It was a really, really quiet day today.

284
00:15:24.403 --> 00:15:29.946
We did see some information coming out
from Capitec that looked good.

285
00:15:29.966 --> 00:15:31.707
I mean, they're just going from strength
to strength.

286
00:15:31.807 --> 00:15:38.611
It's just crazy, crazy how this very much
in line with Bloomberg consensus,

287
00:15:38.631 --> 00:15:44.198
but I mean, headline earnings per share
growing 23 percent that is that's just

288
00:15:44.198 --> 00:15:46.198
crazy return

289
00:15:46.198 --> 00:15:46.220
on equity i mean a lot of people usually

290
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:52.884
say well and i'm one of them was was
always worried to get into capite because

291
00:15:53.425 --> 00:15:57.347
when you when you look at the that they
priced a book um

292
00:15:58.268 --> 00:16:05.253
sometimes more than double more than
double some of these other banks um the

293
00:16:05.253 --> 00:16:07.253
price the books and but when you look

294
00:16:07.253 --> 00:16:09.253
at the Return on equity.

295
00:16:09.253 --> 00:16:11.253
Return on equity.

296
00:16:11.253 --> 00:16:13.253
31%, Lindsay.

297
00:16:13.253 --> 00:16:14.716
31% and that's more than double most of
these local banks'

298
00:16:15.236 --> 00:16:16.337
return on equities as well.

299
00:16:16.397 --> 00:16:20.821
So, yeah, it's really, really going from
strength to strength.

300
00:16:22.062 --> 00:16:27.747
Every reporting, I think to myself, I
mean, this bank just can't continue to

301
00:16:27.747 --> 00:16:28.067
grow,

302
00:16:28.968 --> 00:16:29.668
continue growing.

303
00:16:29.668 --> 00:16:35.073
That's been going for six or seven years,
maybe even more when it was 7,800 rand a

304
00:16:35.073 --> 00:16:35.474
share.

305
00:16:35.474 --> 00:16:37.215
People saying, I can't keep on going like
this.

306
00:16:37.475 --> 00:16:39.055
There's no customers in South Africa.

307
00:16:39.095 --> 00:16:40.576
The economy's messed up.

308
00:16:40.916 --> 00:16:42.876
So how on earth can they keep on going?

309
00:16:43.137 --> 00:16:43.917
And look at it now.

310
00:16:44.457 --> 00:16:50.759
Keep on going, Kapitek, I say, but there
will be a point at one point where you

311
00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:52.759
start ignoring customers and

312
00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.680
customer service and you get too cocky
about it all and something will happen and

313
00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:58.680
it will come down.

314
00:16:58.680 --> 00:16:59.021
But at the moment, just go with the flow.

315
00:17:00.141 --> 00:17:00.841
That's it.

316
00:17:00.841 --> 00:17:01.441
That's it.

317
00:17:01.602 --> 00:17:08.244
So, yeah, when we look at other news in
the market, We had Remgrove.

318
00:17:09.085 --> 00:17:10.026
That's an interesting one.

319
00:17:10.046 --> 00:17:12.788
You know my view on Remgrove.

320
00:17:12.808 --> 00:17:17.271
You know it's one of my let's call it most
loved stocks.

321
00:17:17.852 --> 00:17:24.618
They now mention that they now they
actually had a complete full disposal of

322
00:17:24.618 --> 00:17:26.618
their

323
00:17:26.618 --> 00:17:28.618
first-round share.

324
00:17:28.618 --> 00:17:30.618
The whole lot.

325
00:17:30.618 --> 00:17:32.618
Yeah, the whole lot.

326
00:17:32.618 --> 00:17:34.618
First-round is gone.

327
00:17:34.618 --> 00:17:36.618
But this is crazy.

328
00:17:36.618 --> 00:17:38.618
Listen to this.

329
00:17:38.618 --> 00:17:40.618
When you look at the...

330
00:17:40.618 --> 00:17:42.618
year-end results and that was

331
00:17:42.618 --> 00:17:46.262
31st of december they had cash um cash on
the cash cash within rem grow

332
00:17:47.222 --> 00:17:54.184
just over 12 billion rand okay they had a
potential capital gains liability that's

333
00:17:54.224 --> 00:18:00.565
about five billion so that still means
that's that's if it offsets we're talking

334
00:18:00.565 --> 00:18:02.565
about seven billion rand in cash

335
00:18:02.565 --> 00:18:07.023
the the first rand valuation on the books
in in december was also

336
00:18:07.823 --> 00:18:08.644
7 billion Rand.

337
00:18:08.664 --> 00:18:12.925
So let's take that 7 billion Rand, add
that to the remaining 7 billion Rand,

338
00:18:12.926 --> 00:18:16.266
that's 14 billion Rand cash for RemGrow,

339
00:18:16.546 --> 00:18:20.967
and it's still trading at quite a chunky
discount to NAV.

340
00:18:20.987 --> 00:18:26.568
So, I mean, you're asking me, we're
talking about the uncertainty in the

341
00:18:26.568 --> 00:18:28.568
market, we're talking about,

342
00:18:28.568 --> 00:18:34.431
I can't believe the investors are piling
into the market with this environment

343
00:18:34.431 --> 00:18:36.431
we're trading in.

344
00:18:36.431 --> 00:18:38.933
I think for investors that, that feel a
bit of FOMO, this could be a company you

345
00:18:38.933 --> 00:18:39.094
can look at.

346
00:18:39.094 --> 00:18:45.078
Because I do think that at this very, very
wide discount, this amount of cash on

347
00:18:45.078 --> 00:18:45.458
hand,

348
00:18:45.458 --> 00:18:48.740
and they haven't really made it clear what
they're going to do with the cash.

349
00:18:48.760 --> 00:18:51.022
So usually a company,

350
00:18:51.082 --> 00:18:57.807
when they sell out of a sizable portion of
the portfolio, in this case, first-rand,

351
00:18:58.367 --> 00:19:02.951
they always say, well, we have identified
either to pay off some...

352
00:19:03.151 --> 00:19:03.851
some of our debt.

353
00:19:03.851 --> 00:19:06.312
Now, in this case, Remgrave don't have any
debt.

354
00:19:06.412 --> 00:19:10.214
Or they'll say, well, we earmarked this
for further acquisitions.

355
00:19:10.215 --> 00:19:11.254
Well, they haven't done that either.

356
00:19:11.334 --> 00:19:13.035
So that leaves two things.

357
00:19:13.055 --> 00:19:19.438
That leaves that either they might be
buying back some shares that could have a

358
00:19:19.438 --> 00:19:21.438
massive effect on this

359
00:19:21.438 --> 00:19:26.821
large discount to its intrinsic value, or
they might pay out sizable dividends,

360
00:19:27.101 --> 00:19:29.222
which will also be very, very positive.

361
00:19:29.302 --> 00:19:30.783
What would you like as a shareholder?

362
00:19:30.803 --> 00:19:31.923
Would you like the buyback?

363
00:19:32.263 --> 00:19:37.832
which is what the American banks are doing
at the moment, $33 billion in the last

364
00:19:37.832 --> 00:19:37.891
quarter,

365
00:19:37.891 --> 00:19:44.563
so maybe a financial company like Remgrove
might do the same, or would you prefer the

366
00:19:44.563 --> 00:19:46.563
special dividend?

367
00:19:46.563 --> 00:19:48.752
I would currently prefer the latter.

368
00:19:49.112 --> 00:19:54.977
And not that I don't believe in the
abilities of Yanni and Co., well,

369
00:19:55.417 --> 00:19:57.199
the Remgrove team, not at all.

370
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:03.083
But the one thing that, and you've had
this conversation last year, also a few

371
00:20:03.083 --> 00:20:05.083
times this year as well,

372
00:20:05.083 --> 00:20:07.083
you can see the playbook.

373
00:20:07.083 --> 00:20:09.429
You can see what happened with Raynette,
which is the, let's call it more offshore,

374
00:20:10.970 --> 00:20:16.233
I want to put it in inverted commas,
Remgrove of, of um at

375
00:20:16.613 --> 00:20:23.495
Rupert. And they, on that side, they got
rid of the Crown Jewels, namely British

376
00:20:23.495 --> 00:20:25.495
American Tobacco Company,

377
00:20:25.495 --> 00:20:25.916
and gave it back to the investors.

378
00:20:25.917 --> 00:20:26.716
What's left, Skunk?

379
00:20:26.896 --> 00:20:27.977
Tell me what's left, please.

380
00:20:29.097 --> 00:20:33.978
Inside Remgrove, it's still the largest
investment in Remgrove is Mediclinic.

381
00:20:35.719 --> 00:20:40.020
I don't have percentage, but I think the
last that I recall was about 31, 32% of

382
00:20:40.020 --> 00:20:40.161
the portfolio.

383
00:20:40.161 --> 00:20:43.521
Okay, a third of it is Mediclinic, yeah.

384
00:20:44.377 --> 00:20:45.077
Yeah.

385
00:20:45.077 --> 00:20:50.521
And then when you look at the other large
investments, and this I do like,

386
00:20:50.921 --> 00:20:53.462
they've got a sizable investment.

387
00:20:53.502 --> 00:21:00.146
And when I say sizable, this is now
starting to get very close to the

388
00:21:00.146 --> 00:21:02.146
investment size of Mediclinic, and that's
outshurance.

389
00:21:02.146 --> 00:21:03.208
So that's also a very interesting one.

390
00:21:03.368 --> 00:21:05.109
So outshurance.

391
00:21:05.149 --> 00:21:06.069
It is very interesting.

392
00:21:06.089 --> 00:21:10.232
And the reason it's interesting to me is
because I was watching Irish television

393
00:21:10.232 --> 00:21:12.232
the other night.

394
00:21:12.232 --> 00:21:14.232
I mean, you cannot believe it.

395
00:21:14.232 --> 00:21:16.232
I will search.

396
00:21:16.232 --> 00:21:18.232
European sites to get free football.

397
00:21:18.232 --> 00:21:20.198
And on Virgin Media Ireland, Virgin Media
Dublin,

398
00:21:20.898 --> 00:21:24.701
there was a free football match I wanted
to watch so I didn't have to pay a

399
00:21:24.701 --> 00:21:26.701
subscription.

400
00:21:26.701 --> 00:21:28.701
So I watched it.

401
00:21:28.701 --> 00:21:29.064
And in between, there were outshurance
ads.

402
00:21:29.084 --> 00:21:30.525
And I thought, wait a second.

403
00:21:34.367 --> 00:21:36.288
This is an Irish television station.

404
00:21:36.749 --> 00:21:37.449
And they're...

405
00:21:37.597 --> 00:21:39.458
And it's a really good Irish ad as well.

406
00:21:40.199 --> 00:21:41.159
It was quite funny.

407
00:21:41.719 --> 00:21:42.960
It was quite engaging.

408
00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:47.022
And you wanted to say, well, I wouldn't
mind having a look at that company.

409
00:21:47.143 --> 00:21:48.823
And it was Outurance, for goodness sake.

410
00:21:49.104 --> 00:21:51.565
A proudly South African company.

411
00:21:52.626 --> 00:21:53.326
It is.

412
00:21:53.326 --> 00:21:54.407
And it's a good story.

413
00:21:54.467 --> 00:21:58.689
We were talking about Capitec earlier as a
great South African story.

414
00:21:59.790 --> 00:22:05.033
Great management, great prospects and
forecast.

415
00:22:05.034 --> 00:22:05.734
And.

416
00:22:05.734 --> 00:22:07.459
And out-surance is no difference.

417
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:13.264
I think it's a model that can be
replicated beyond the borders of South

418
00:22:13.264 --> 00:22:13.383
Africa.

419
00:22:13.383 --> 00:22:17.187
But back to the point, I mean, it's the
second largest position.

420
00:22:17.227 --> 00:22:22.752
Then the third largest one is the one
that's actually exciting me, I would say

421
00:22:22.752 --> 00:22:24.752
the most,

422
00:22:24.752 --> 00:22:28.097
in the sense that they've got that deal
with Vodacom where they start rolling out

423
00:22:28.097 --> 00:22:30.097
this dark fiber, the

424
00:22:30.097 --> 00:22:32.961
CIVH. And I think that could be a very,
very interesting...

425
00:22:33.445 --> 00:22:35.486
interesting company for the future.

426
00:22:36.166 --> 00:22:39.067
And then I would say the fourth largest
one is Discovery.

427
00:22:39.928 --> 00:22:43.089
And we all know Discovery's story as well,
also good.

428
00:22:43.109 --> 00:22:49.592
So even if they just go and pay out a
large special dividend,

429
00:22:50.432 --> 00:22:51.712
I would be more than happy,

430
00:22:52.573 --> 00:22:59.215
more than happy to sit with the remaining
companies in Rimgrave because it's great

431
00:22:59.255 --> 00:22:59.955
companies.

432
00:23:00.016 --> 00:23:02.957
And do not be surprised if we've seen...

433
00:23:03.593 --> 00:23:05.955
The likes of rainbow chickens, for
instance,

434
00:23:06.196 --> 00:23:12.782
where rainbow chickens were listed and
then eventually delisted and eventually

435
00:23:12.782 --> 00:23:14.782
listed again.

436
00:23:14.782 --> 00:23:15.264
And we know that circle.

437
00:23:15.685 --> 00:23:22.471
Don't be surprised if many clinics get to
a certain point again where they get

438
00:23:22.471 --> 00:23:24.471
listed again as well and stripped out of

439
00:23:24.471 --> 00:23:28.557
Remgrove. Is there a chance, Skunk, that
you look at this company, Remgrove, and

440
00:23:28.557 --> 00:23:30.557
you look at them as they're selling
first-round?

441
00:23:30.557 --> 00:23:31.403
First of all, why are they selling
first-round?

442
00:23:31.463 --> 00:23:32.924
Why did they sell first-round?

443
00:23:33.144 --> 00:23:33.844
What did they sell?

444
00:23:33.844 --> 00:23:38.307
They sold advice that Remco had disposed
of

445
00:23:39.968 --> 00:23:46.092
51,996,739 shares and then off-market

446
00:23:46.533 --> 00:23:50.255
3,300,000. Anyway, the point is they sold
a lot of shares.

447
00:23:50.355 --> 00:23:51.496
Why did they do that?

448
00:23:51.856 --> 00:23:53.237
Did they not like first-round?

449
00:23:54.761 --> 00:23:55.602
Did they not like First Rand?

450
00:23:55.603 --> 00:23:58.562
No, they had a small holding in First
Rand, but their main holding was in RMB.

451
00:23:59.843 --> 00:24:06.105
And remember RMB, I think it was something
like 96% of RMB was First Rand.

452
00:24:06.565 --> 00:24:12.286
And then RMB actually unbundled First Rand
out of the company.

453
00:24:12.866 --> 00:24:16.467
And suddenly Remgrave was sitting with a
massive chunk of First Rand.

454
00:24:16.507 --> 00:24:19.668
And I think it wasn't a core holding for
them.

455
00:24:19.669 --> 00:24:21.829
And I've mentioned it a few times already.

456
00:24:22.369 --> 00:24:24.631
First Rand was never really a core, core
holding.

457
00:24:25.111 --> 00:24:29.715
So I think it's just time they but again,

458
00:24:29.755 --> 00:24:34.239
your bigger question is more what's been
the playbook for these stuff,

459
00:24:34.659 --> 00:24:37.722
for Raynet as well as Remgra over the past
24 months?

460
00:24:37.723 --> 00:24:40.544
Are they getting to the point where
they're saying, no, we're bored with this

461
00:24:40.544 --> 00:24:40.884
now.

462
00:24:40.884 --> 00:24:42.786
This is an old investment model.

463
00:24:42.846 --> 00:24:49.132
So we have to get out of these things
slowly and gently so that people like

464
00:24:49.132 --> 00:24:51.132
Skullclo don't freak out.

465
00:24:51.132 --> 00:24:55.772
and if eventually we're going to dispose
of all these things, in which case you've

466
00:24:55.772 --> 00:24:57.772
got to buy them immediately.

467
00:24:57.772 --> 00:24:59.772
Yep, it could be.

468
00:24:59.772 --> 00:25:00.463
Because at a 40% discount, sign me up for
those.

469
00:25:00.464 --> 00:25:01.464
Precisely, yeah.

470
00:25:03.166 --> 00:25:04.747
Okay, it's an interesting one.

471
00:25:06.028 --> 00:25:06.909
That could be the one.

472
00:25:06.910 --> 00:25:12.113
If you're a hedge fund manager or
something and you're looking at this,

473
00:25:12.113 --> 00:25:14.113
goodness me, it could be the play for you.

474
00:25:14.295 --> 00:25:17.778
Skunk, let's have a look at what went up
and down on the JSC today.

475
00:25:18.038 --> 00:25:24.464
And I'll tell you that I've got Sassel up
5.2%, 216.

476
00:25:25.032 --> 00:25:27.233
Rand and 64 cents per share.

477
00:25:27.293 --> 00:25:32.896
Quilter up 5.1%, Aspen up 3.9%, Tungela up
3%,

478
00:25:33.337 --> 00:25:35.258
and Glencore up 2.1%.

479
00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:37.259
Do you want to comment on any of those,
please?

480
00:25:38.499 --> 00:25:42.541
No, we had Billiton that actually brought
a trading statement.

481
00:25:42.722 --> 00:25:48.165
And from a copper play point of view, they
did really well.

482
00:25:49.385 --> 00:25:53.507
So I think that could have had an effect
on the likes of Glencore as well.

483
00:25:53.768 --> 00:25:54.568
Might have not.

484
00:25:54.788 --> 00:26:01.092
might have had but yeah it was it was a
good day i think uh billetson was also up

485
00:26:01.092 --> 00:26:03.092
something like two percent so that might
have just

486
00:26:03.092 --> 00:26:08.256
just not make your make your top five
there so that might have been just a bit

487
00:26:08.256 --> 00:26:10.256
of a copper play today on the downside
absa down

488
00:26:10.256 --> 00:26:14.320
3.8 percent uh harmony a 3.1 percent loser
richmond down 2.85 percent

489
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:20.563
uh what is it 2.1 percent down for mr
price and another retailer, TrueWorths,

490
00:26:20.743 --> 00:26:23.129
down just over Two percent.

491
00:26:23.209 --> 00:26:28.211
Retail is not doing well, I suppose,
because of the threat of rising interest

492
00:26:28.211 --> 00:26:28.351
rates,

493
00:26:28.531 --> 00:26:30.853
which is absolutely a threat.

494
00:26:31.433 --> 00:26:35.835
And the South African consumer, if this
thing goes on in the Middle East,

495
00:26:36.276 --> 00:26:38.877
will be affected probably more than most.

496
00:26:40.558 --> 00:26:46.221
So just on that note, Absa is an ex-stuff
and also Harmony is also an ex-stuff

497
00:26:46.221 --> 00:26:46.321
story.

498
00:26:47.101 --> 00:26:49.123
But yeah, you're right.

499
00:26:49.163 --> 00:26:50.523
I think you're definitely right.

500
00:26:50.563 --> 00:26:51.544
It's definitely going to be a...

501
00:26:51.988 --> 00:26:53.749
Interesting story.

502
00:26:53.750 --> 00:26:54.450
Okay.

503
00:26:54.450 --> 00:26:55.429
Skulk, thanks so much for your time.

504
00:26:55.490 --> 00:27:00.772
Skulk Lowe is a portfolio manager at PSG
Wealth Old Oak in Cape Town, and that was

505
00:27:00.772 --> 00:27:02.772
the 5 o'clock shadow.

506
00:27:02.772 --> 00:27:08.395
The views and opinions expressed in these
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507
00:27:08.395 --> 00:27:10.395
various contributors and do not reflect
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508
00:27:10.395 --> 00:27:12.917
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509
00:27:13.257 --> 00:27:17.098
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510
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:20.660
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511
00:27:20.860 --> 00:27:24.526
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512
00:27:24.806 --> 00:27:30.015
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513
00:27:30.015 --> 00:27:30.115
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514
00:27:30.295 --> 00:27:32.859
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515
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:35.564
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