WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.380 --> 00:00:04.523
You're listening to Strictly Business
Podcast with Lindsay Williams.

2
00:00:05.727 --> 00:00:11.555
A year ago, it was fairly easy to predict
that the year 2025 might be an interesting

3
00:00:11.555 --> 00:00:13.555
one.

4
00:00:13.555 --> 00:00:14.734
There was a new and unpredictable resident
coming to the White House.

5
00:00:14.773 --> 00:00:20.359
Global economies and central banks were
behaving differently and creating low

6
00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:22.359
pressure here and high pressure there.

7
00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:26.484
And of course, we had a well-established
bull market in gold and of course, again,

8
00:00:26.484 --> 00:00:28.484
AI stocks.

9
00:00:28.484 --> 00:00:32.634
And most importantly, in my opinion, A
nascent bear market in the US dollar.

10
00:00:32.876 --> 00:00:37.361
But what promised to be an interesting
year has turned out to be a remarkable

11
00:00:37.361 --> 00:00:39.361
one.

12
00:00:39.361 --> 00:00:42.302
And look no further than the, for example,
the SA bond market, to justify that

13
00:00:42.302 --> 00:00:44.302
description.

14
00:00:44.302 --> 00:00:48.349
Looking decidedly shaky at the end of the
first quarter, yields have fallen sharply

15
00:00:48.349 --> 00:00:50.349
for all the right reasons,

16
00:00:50.349 --> 00:00:51.349
and a full-blown bond bull market has
ensued.

17
00:00:51.411 --> 00:00:55.958
As for equities, the JSC has been an
outperformer, with SA Inc.

18
00:00:56.646 --> 00:00:58.052
stocks joining the party.

19
00:00:58.388 --> 00:01:01.952
But given the bond's ebullience, have
equities lagged a little bit?

20
00:01:02.372 --> 00:01:09.055
Interesting question, and it's going to be
answered from an icy Manhattan by 91 Value

21
00:01:09.055 --> 00:01:11.055
Fund manager,

22
00:01:11.055 --> 00:01:13.055
John Bickard.

23
00:01:13.055 --> 00:01:13.821
And may I be the first to wish you a Merry
Christmas, John, and a Happy New Year.

24
00:01:14.321 --> 00:01:17.930
And I think you're looking forward to
2026.

25
00:01:18.180 --> 00:01:19.009
I get the feeling.

26
00:01:19.634 --> 00:01:23.134
Yes, I think your introduction sums it up
well,

27
00:01:23.212 --> 00:01:27.899
that there's been a massive dislocation
between...

28
00:01:29.145 --> 00:01:36.112
in SA between equities and bonds and if
you just take a step back and look in the

29
00:01:36.112 --> 00:01:38.112
value fund over

30
00:01:38.112 --> 00:01:42.116
the last 25 years the money we've made is
really been like four or five

31
00:01:43.038 --> 00:01:45.944
what we'd call big fat pictures when when

32
00:01:45.960 --> 00:01:50.366
there's a dislocation in the market and I
go back over that 25 years and

33
00:01:50.913 --> 00:01:56.350
25 years ago we put all our money in SA
Inc at the beginning of the 2000s that

34
00:01:56.350 --> 00:01:58.350
eventually worked out really well

35
00:01:58.350 --> 00:02:04.269
we avoided resources in 2008 we put money
into platinum sort of

36
00:02:04.270 --> 00:02:11.238
2017 to 2020 eventually after waiting four
or five years that really worked well so

37
00:02:11.238 --> 00:02:13.238
all the money we've made in that period

38
00:02:13.238 --> 00:02:18.199
is by betting big at the time when there's
these dislocations and i think this is

39
00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:18.399
where we

40
00:02:18.399 --> 00:02:25.105
are right now between south african
equities and bonds and i've i find it sort

41
00:02:25.105 --> 00:02:27.105
of quite amusing because

42
00:02:27.105 --> 00:02:29.105
I listen to...

43
00:02:29.105 --> 00:02:35.029
commentators talking on the essay market
and everyone now is bullish on bonds and

44
00:02:35.029 --> 00:02:37.029
you know I mean where were these

45
00:02:37.029 --> 00:02:41.412
people when the bonds were I mean they
were 10% the 10-year at the beginning of

46
00:02:41.412 --> 00:02:43.412
the year that I think the first quarter as
you

47
00:02:43.412 --> 00:02:43.935
mentioned they touched 11%

48
00:02:44.294 --> 00:02:51.169
if I can interrupt you John yeah just
before Liberation Day in anticipation of

49
00:02:51.169 --> 00:02:53.169
Liberation Day and then a couple of days
after the

50
00:02:53.169 --> 00:02:57.154
so-called Liberation Day I think we went
to something like eleven point one five

51
00:02:57.154 --> 00:02:59.154
percent on the 10 year.

52
00:02:59.154 --> 00:03:00.288
And now we're down at something like 8.3%.

53
00:03:00.388 --> 00:03:01.929
It's been an extraordinary time.

54
00:03:02.628 --> 00:03:03.328
Yes.

55
00:03:03.671 --> 00:03:06.109
So, I mean, that is an enormous return.

56
00:03:06.148 --> 00:03:09.773
I think the bond return for the year is
sort of 25 in Rand.

57
00:03:09.827 --> 00:03:14.390
But of that March high, you know, the
number is probably closer to 40%.

58
00:03:14.391 --> 00:03:19.296
So, you know, on a pretty low-risk asset,
that is an enormous return.

59
00:03:19.452 --> 00:03:23.734
So, you know, to be chasing the bond
market at 8.30, you know,

60
00:03:23.749 --> 00:03:26.687
I'm no bond expert and bonds probably are
okay still.

61
00:03:26.812 --> 00:03:27.512
But.

62
00:03:27.512 --> 00:03:28.417
the real money has been made.

63
00:03:28.778 --> 00:03:33.302
And the next big opportunity is in SA
equity.

64
00:03:33.462 --> 00:03:37.423
So, you know, just take another step back.

65
00:03:37.626 --> 00:03:41.126
You know, evaluation of an equity is
based,

66
00:03:41.509 --> 00:03:46.415
the two key drivers on evaluation of
equity is the current cash flows.

67
00:03:46.416 --> 00:03:47.540
Well, there are three drivers.

68
00:03:47.541 --> 00:03:52.259
The current cash flows, the long-term
growth in the cash flows, and the discount

69
00:03:52.259 --> 00:03:54.259
rate.

70
00:03:54.259 --> 00:03:55.759
And I always think the discount rate is
the most.

71
00:03:56.148 --> 00:04:03.094
underappreciated part of a valuation of an
equity because you know when people when

72
00:04:03.094 --> 00:04:05.094
people talk about you should buy

73
00:04:05.094 --> 00:04:09.583
this share or buy that share you know they
talk about what the company's doing and

74
00:04:09.583 --> 00:04:11.583
how it's going to grow and how it's going
to be so

75
00:04:11.583 --> 00:04:16.216
fantastic as they guess the future you
don't often hear people say you should buy

76
00:04:16.216 --> 00:04:18.216
an equity because the discount rate is low

77
00:04:18.216 --> 00:04:19.184
and falling you know that's kind of boring
because it's kind of

78
00:04:19.216 --> 00:04:24.216
mathematical but the valuation of equity
is as much driven

79
00:04:25.088 --> 00:04:27.650
by the discount rate as the future cash
flows.

80
00:04:28.271 --> 00:04:32.433
And so you've had the discount rate fall
from 10 or 11% to 8.5%.

81
00:04:33.097 --> 00:04:34.097
You've had bonds go up

82
00:04:34.574 --> 00:04:41.160
30%. That means an equity that was South
African-Rand-based,

83
00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:47.363
where there's South African-Rand cash
flows, if it was valued at X on the

84
00:04:47.816 --> 00:04:52.972
31st of December a year ago, it should be
valued 50% higher, unless you...

85
00:04:53.200 --> 00:04:55.509
expect lower cash flows from that equity.

86
00:04:56.667 --> 00:05:03.074
Assuming that nothing has changed in the
cash flows, which if anything, the cash

87
00:05:03.074 --> 00:05:05.074
flows have probably got better because the
SA economy has got better.

88
00:05:05.074 --> 00:05:07.074
But let's just say the cash flows are the
same.

89
00:05:07.074 --> 00:05:10.438
A SA steady cash flow generating business
should be up 50% over the last year.

90
00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:17.047
And yet, there are many equities that are
down in RAND terms and probably the

91
00:05:17.047 --> 00:05:19.047
average SA

92
00:05:19.047 --> 00:05:21.406
equity off the top of my head is probably
up 10% and massively lagged the market.

93
00:05:21.438 --> 00:05:23.766
So that is the dislocation.

94
00:05:24.239 --> 00:05:25.741
Okay, a good dislocation as well.

95
00:05:25.841 --> 00:05:32.247
So I'll get to where this leaves you at
the moment, where you're positioned and

96
00:05:32.247 --> 00:05:34.247
where you might be positioned over the
next few

97
00:05:34.247 --> 00:05:36.247
weeks and months.

98
00:05:36.247 --> 00:05:38.247
But also let's look at fundamentals.

99
00:05:38.247 --> 00:05:40.802
I mean, Operation Vulindlela, for example,
Operation Phase One of that out of the

100
00:05:40.802 --> 00:05:42.802
way, and it's been rather good.

101
00:05:42.802 --> 00:05:43.318
Load shedding is a thing of the past,
apparently.

102
00:05:44.318 --> 00:05:47.990
Freight problems have been solved to a
good degree.

103
00:05:48.068 --> 00:05:48.958
There's more to come.

104
00:05:49.302 --> 00:05:50.286
The interest rates are...

105
00:05:50.755 --> 00:05:52.798
supposedly coming down even further.

106
00:05:53.097 --> 00:05:54.939
Inflation is under control.

107
00:05:55.540 --> 00:06:01.845
It's all set fair from a fundamental point
of view, as well as the technical and

108
00:06:01.845 --> 00:06:03.845
mathematical point of view that you've
just well described, John.

109
00:06:03.845 --> 00:06:04.908
Yeah, so I think those are all important
points.

110
00:06:05.431 --> 00:06:11.298
So what I've described is if South Africa
was the same place as a year ago, you

111
00:06:11.298 --> 00:06:11.717
know,

112
00:06:11.717 --> 00:06:12.892
an equity should be up 40 or 50%.

113
00:06:13.876 --> 00:06:18.876
But actually, the most interesting thing
is actually South Africa is in a much

114
00:06:18.876 --> 00:06:20.876
better place than it was a year ago.

115
00:06:20.876 --> 00:06:24.117
And that's Just an added bonus that I
actually think the change,

116
00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:31.344
the most important change is the terms of
trade, which is, you know, on the 31st of

117
00:06:31.344 --> 00:06:33.344
December, if I'd come to you,

118
00:06:33.344 --> 00:06:37.125
Lindsay, and said precious metals will be
up 50 percent, 60 percent,

119
00:06:37.219 --> 00:06:39.156
70 percent in RAND terms.

120
00:06:39.859 --> 00:06:43.391
And the oil price will be down 15 percent
in RAND terms.

121
00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:46.125
And bond yields will be 200 basis points
lower.

122
00:06:47.078 --> 00:06:48.891
that are trade.

123
00:06:49.107 --> 00:06:54.250
that we'd be running a trade surplus and
that the current account,

124
00:06:54.613 --> 00:06:57.336
the budget deficit would be reduced.

125
00:06:58.156 --> 00:07:03.781
And I put all those things in front of you
and said, this is what's going to happen

126
00:07:03.781 --> 00:07:05.781
over 2025.

127
00:07:05.781 --> 00:07:08.750
I think pretty much everyone would say,
well, SA shares will be up 40% and they

128
00:07:08.750 --> 00:07:09.029
haven't.

129
00:07:09.029 --> 00:07:09.953
So why is that?

130
00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:15.813
I think the first, you know, people will
say it's because there's still problems in

131
00:07:15.813 --> 00:07:17.813
South Africa,

132
00:07:17.813 --> 00:07:18.141
but the pathetic truth is.

133
00:07:18.771 --> 00:07:25.414
The main reason why SA equities have
lagged is that fund managers in South

134
00:07:25.414 --> 00:07:27.414
Africa went into

135
00:07:27.414 --> 00:07:29.652
2025 very underweight platinum and gold
shares.

136
00:07:29.816 --> 00:07:36.722
And platinum and gold shares have given
the entire return of the JSE this year and

137
00:07:36.722 --> 00:07:38.722
basically have

138
00:07:38.722 --> 00:07:40.082
gone to like 25% of the index between the
two of them.

139
00:07:40.629 --> 00:07:43.113
And SA fund managers have been underweight
that.

140
00:07:43.129 --> 00:07:43.829
So in order...

141
00:07:44.427 --> 00:07:48.489
to buy more platinum and gold shares to
reduce their underweight to keep their

142
00:07:48.489 --> 00:07:48.628
jobs.

143
00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:51.328
They've had to sell the SA Inc.

144
00:07:51.450 --> 00:07:53.871
shares, and that's really what's happened.

145
00:07:53.910 --> 00:07:57.067
So, you know, people are going, well, why
haven't they responded?

146
00:07:57.114 --> 00:08:00.746
And then people start to worry about maybe
there's something I've missed.

147
00:08:00.856 --> 00:08:07.278
Well, the principal reason they haven't is
they have been used as a funder for fund

148
00:08:07.309 --> 00:08:13.695
managers to reduce their underweight in
precious metals, which makes no sense at

149
00:08:13.695 --> 00:08:15.695
all because SA Inc.

150
00:08:15.695 --> 00:08:19.616
is actually very cheap, as we've
discussed, and it is actually a

151
00:08:19.616 --> 00:08:21.616
beneficiary of precious metals.

152
00:08:21.616 --> 00:08:26.034
So you're selling the cheap thing to buy
the thing that's helping the cheap thing

153
00:08:26.034 --> 00:08:28.034
that's gone up

154
00:08:28.034 --> 00:08:28.354
200% in a year.

155
00:08:28.355 --> 00:08:29.495
It just doesn't make sense.

156
00:08:29.558 --> 00:08:36.167
But if you're lagging the index and you've
got a half weight in platinum and gold and

157
00:08:36.167 --> 00:08:38.167
your chief investment officer says,

158
00:08:38.167 --> 00:08:40.167
what are you doing?

159
00:08:40.167 --> 00:08:42.167
You narrow that underweight and you sell.

160
00:08:42.167 --> 00:08:42.467
Okay, so what's the chief investment
officer going to say at the beginning of

161
00:08:42.467 --> 00:08:42.566
the new year?

162
00:08:42.566 --> 00:08:44.910
We'll sit down and say, right, chaps,
2026.

163
00:08:45.148 --> 00:08:48.148
We messed up a little bit in 2025.

164
00:08:48.414 --> 00:08:54.258
We've got maybe another, according to this
podcast with Bickard and Williams, we've

165
00:08:54.258 --> 00:08:56.258
got another maybe 40, 50%

166
00:08:56.258 --> 00:08:56.484
to go in SA Inc.

167
00:08:56.562 --> 00:08:58.844
stocks or certain SA Incorporated stocks.

168
00:08:58.906 --> 00:09:01.390
Anyway, do you think it's going to be a
bull market?

169
00:09:01.406 --> 00:09:04.203
And are you positioned accordingly?

170
00:09:05.515 --> 00:09:07.828
So, yes, I do.

171
00:09:08.031 --> 00:09:08.731
And I think...

172
00:09:09.119 --> 00:09:15.606
To go back to what we said at the
beginning, at the moment we are basically

173
00:09:15.606 --> 00:09:17.606
more overweight SA Inc.

174
00:09:17.606 --> 00:09:19.727
shares in the funds than we were prior to
the election.

175
00:09:19.766 --> 00:09:26.696
So the last time there was a real
opportunity was just prior to the election

176
00:09:26.696 --> 00:09:28.696
when everyone

177
00:09:28.696 --> 00:09:31.102
was so negative about the outcome of the
election and we basically were fully

178
00:09:31.102 --> 00:09:33.102
loaded SA Inc.

179
00:09:33.102 --> 00:09:33.837
shares and they rallied 40 or 50% after
that.

180
00:09:34.712 --> 00:09:38.665
We then sold them out and now we've bought
back and we've actually bought more now.

181
00:09:39.567 --> 00:09:46.193
So, excluding one big position we have in
commodities,

182
00:09:46.255 --> 00:09:51.075
which is African rainbow minerals, which
we think is a very good way into platinum

183
00:09:51.075 --> 00:09:53.075
and gold,

184
00:09:53.075 --> 00:09:53.583
which is the biggest position in the fund.

185
00:09:53.724 --> 00:09:56.318
Outside of that, everything else in the
portfolio.

186
00:09:57.150 --> 00:09:58.510
is in South African shares.

187
00:09:59.171 --> 00:10:01.673
And we used to have quite a lot of banks.

188
00:10:01.731 --> 00:10:05.790
Banks have actually been the better
performing SA Inc.

189
00:10:05.852 --> 00:10:07.751
I mean, I think they're still cheap,

190
00:10:08.415 --> 00:10:13.610
but they've kind of led an underperforming
pack and they've done okay.

191
00:10:13.673 --> 00:10:18.032
So what we've done is sell our ABSA and
we've rotated that money into the SA Inc.

192
00:10:18.141 --> 00:10:20.001
shares that have lagged.

193
00:10:20.110 --> 00:10:25.235
And so our biggest positions are Bitvest,
which is a real...

194
00:10:26.206 --> 00:10:29.090
It's always been a proxy for SA Inc.

195
00:10:29.109 --> 00:10:33.632
and a popular stock for foreign
shareholders, and that has massively

196
00:10:33.632 --> 00:10:35.632
lagged.

197
00:10:35.632 --> 00:10:38.058
And on 11 times earnings, we think it's
just completely underpriced,

198
00:10:38.097 --> 00:10:42.457
especially considering that they are big
in logistics and they've got a lot of good

199
00:10:42.457 --> 00:10:44.457
businesses in there.

200
00:10:44.457 --> 00:10:48.394
Our second biggest holding is Woolworths,
which has also lagged the retailers,

201
00:10:48.535 --> 00:10:51.144
and we see concrete signs that that's
turning around.

202
00:10:51.832 --> 00:10:54.347
And then we've bought back into the
hospital companies.

203
00:10:54.850 --> 00:10:56.152
net care and life health care.

204
00:10:56.153 --> 00:11:02.855
And if I say something about hospitals,
hospitals are interesting because

205
00:11:02.855 --> 00:11:04.855
hospitals are really a bond proxy in

206
00:11:04.855 --> 00:11:06.855
equities.

207
00:11:06.855 --> 00:11:08.855
There's not a lot of growth.

208
00:11:08.855 --> 00:11:09.949
They grow patient days at 1% and they grow
their top line at 5% or 6%.

209
00:11:10.753 --> 00:11:15.034
And they're getting a bit of efficiency,
so they're growing their earnings at 10%

210
00:11:15.034 --> 00:11:17.034
to 15%.

211
00:11:17.034 --> 00:11:19.800
But it's an annuity earning business just
churning out rants.

212
00:11:19.863 --> 00:11:22.144
It's almost like a bond.

213
00:11:22.614 --> 00:11:25.317
but with some inflation characteristics.

214
00:11:25.397 --> 00:11:27.580
And this is exactly the kind of stock you
want.

215
00:11:28.280 --> 00:11:34.389
So instead of going to buy SA Bond on
8.3%, as we said, you can go and buy

216
00:11:35.506 --> 00:11:39.827
Life Healthcare or Netcare and their free
cash flow yield.

217
00:11:40.045 --> 00:11:46.577
In other words, a direct comparison to the
8.3% in the bond is probably more like

218
00:11:47.577 --> 00:11:48.373
12%.

219
00:11:49.733 --> 00:11:50.827
And it's growing.

220
00:11:51.638 --> 00:11:53.839
And they have not rallied at all, really.

221
00:11:53.919 --> 00:12:00.163
They are the worst performing because
people are worried still about national

222
00:12:00.163 --> 00:12:02.163
health and other things like that.

223
00:12:02.163 --> 00:12:08.257
But they are just generating rent cash
flows and are trading at a massive

224
00:12:08.257 --> 00:12:10.257
discount considering where bond

225
00:12:10.257 --> 00:12:12.257
deals are.

226
00:12:12.257 --> 00:12:14.257
So those are the kind of interesting
stocks.

227
00:12:14.257 --> 00:12:16.257
And then we've got a lot of mid-cap
shares.

228
00:12:16.257 --> 00:12:17.866
So mid-caps, you know, banks have led
because they're the most liquid.

229
00:12:17.897 --> 00:12:20.319
And in the last few months, we've seen
some foreign buying.

230
00:12:20.662 --> 00:12:27.628
in SA equities and they've come first for
the bank so they come for the liquid

231
00:12:27.628 --> 00:12:29.628
shares first so that will be things like
the banks and

232
00:12:29.628 --> 00:12:34.632
then eventually the money trickles down to
the mid caps and there's a whole raft of

233
00:12:34.632 --> 00:12:36.632
mid caps that if you think

234
00:12:36.632 --> 00:12:39.734
uh but vest and woolworths and the
hospitals are cheap the mid caps are crazy

235
00:12:39.734 --> 00:12:39.746
i mean

236
00:12:39.781 --> 00:12:42.718
they you can buy any mid caps on and most

237
00:12:42.781 --> 00:12:48.999
mid caps in south africa trade on three or
four times cash flow which means they

238
00:12:48.999 --> 00:12:50.999
trade on like 20%, 25%

239
00:12:50.999 --> 00:12:52.862
free cash flow yields when the bond yield
is 8%, which is...

240
00:12:53.464 --> 00:13:00.069
So there we have names like Italtile,
Tsogo Sun, Rainbow Chickens, Invicta,

241
00:13:00.147 --> 00:13:02.132
City Lodge.

242
00:13:02.133 --> 00:13:08.764
City Lodge is one we've just bought where
things are getting a lot better and

243
00:13:08.764 --> 00:13:10.764
basically it trades at a quarter of the

244
00:13:10.764 --> 00:13:12.749
market value of its properties, which is
quite interesting.

245
00:13:12.921 --> 00:13:14.889
So you've bet big in the past and you bet
big.

246
00:13:15.278 --> 00:13:19.283
Again, and this is all very well, all the
things I've said, all the things you've

247
00:13:19.283 --> 00:13:19.503
said.

248
00:13:19.503 --> 00:13:24.103
And again, going back to Operation
Voulinclela, they say that by 2030,

249
00:13:24.244 --> 00:13:27.267
South Africa's GDP will be 3% per annum,

250
00:13:27.408 --> 00:13:32.330
suggesting that perhaps there's a four or
five year bull market for SA Incorporated

251
00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:34.330
stocks coming.

252
00:13:34.330 --> 00:13:37.205
Any chance, as has happened in the past,
any chance you might be wrong?

253
00:13:37.283 --> 00:13:43.361
I mean, not you're going to be wrong, but
the South African situation might

254
00:13:43.361 --> 00:13:45.361
disappoint you.

255
00:13:45.361 --> 00:13:47.452
So So obviously there's always a chance
you can be wrong.

256
00:13:47.532 --> 00:13:52.315
I guess I'd say the only, I mean, the
valuation is the valuation.

257
00:13:52.436 --> 00:13:54.940
The gap to bond yields is the gap to bond
yields.

258
00:13:55.097 --> 00:13:59.323
The improvement in SA is pretty
widespread.

259
00:13:59.425 --> 00:14:00.706
You know, it's not all one thing.

260
00:14:00.707 --> 00:14:02.433
You know, we're not putting all our money
on ESCOM.

261
00:14:02.448 --> 00:14:04.151
As you say, it's Transnet and ESCOM.

262
00:14:04.870 --> 00:14:07.573
And so it's a number of things are getting
better.

263
00:14:08.854 --> 00:14:14.495
So I guess probably the only wild card is,
I guess, politics.

264
00:14:14.906 --> 00:14:21.353
is, which by the way, always has the
smallest effect on the stock market.

265
00:14:21.354 --> 00:14:27.502
You know, politics is not as big as the
discount rate or growth, but it is a

266
00:14:27.502 --> 00:14:27.679
concern.

267
00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:31.220
So I would say where we could be wrong is,
you know,

268
00:14:31.283 --> 00:14:36.892
a Zuma type problem with respect to the
leadership of the country, which is always

269
00:14:36.892 --> 00:14:38.892
a possibility.

270
00:14:38.892 --> 00:14:40.736
I think it's unlikely, but that's probably
the wild card where we could be wrong.

271
00:14:41.130 --> 00:14:47.362
Okay, so politics is an outside chance of
a wild card scuppering the very rosy

272
00:14:47.362 --> 00:14:49.362
picture that

273
00:14:49.362 --> 00:14:51.362
you've just painted.

274
00:14:51.362 --> 00:14:53.362
John, thank you very much for your time.

275
00:14:53.362 --> 00:14:55.799
A very exciting way to end 2025. John
Bickard is Portfolio Manager,

276
00:14:56.073 --> 00:14:57.776
Value Fund at 91.

277
00:14:59.415 --> 00:15:06.356
The views and opinions expressed in these
podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and

278
00:15:06.356 --> 00:15:08.356
various contributors and do not reflect
the policy,

279
00:15:08.356 --> 00:15:10.094
position or opinion of any other agency,
organisation,

280
00:15:10.438 --> 00:15:15.055
employer or company associated with
StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com.

281
00:15:15.532 --> 00:15:22.500
assumptions made on the analyses are not
reflective of the position of any other

282
00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:24.500
entity other than the speaker or the
author

283
00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:28.688
and since we are critically thinking human
beings these views are always subject to

284
00:15:28.688 --> 00:15:30.688
change revision

285
00:15:30.688 --> 00:15:30.826
and rethinking at any time.

286
00:15:31.127 --> 00:15:33.533
Please do not hold us to them in
perpetuity.
